They did it again ,another Munson cut auto butchered

Joewoowoo

Im sick to my stomach!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20876&item=5213296284&rd=1

NBAFan

Besides Gemmy's, there will probably never be a decent cut Munson auto due to the size of his signature.

KansasJayhawk

That is bad..errrr sad really.

Linky

Joewoowoo

Yes I agree ,It seems Thurman signed his name large but why wouldnt they save the auto and put it on a over sized card .

iamthegreatcornholio

<< <i>Yes I agree ,It seems Thurman signed his name large but why wouldnt they save the auto and put it on a over sized card . >>



Or at least make it a folding card - they've done so with dual autos in the past. You have to buy two of these cards to get the full name

Brian

Axtell

<< <i>Yes I agree ,It seems Thurman signed his name large but why wouldnt they save the auto and put it on a over sized card . >>



And how much draw would that have?

Munson has his core of die hard fans...his huge signature isn't going to fit well on a card...so should the card companies not put his product out, or cut it?

I think it's obvious a majority of people aren't opposed to it.

brianwintersfan

Ugly!

WinPitcher

UPPER DECK??

Knuckles

One of a few reasons why I make my own.. That's hot garbage right there.

Stone193

<< <i>UPPER DECK?? >>


Looks like Playoff Steve and just plain sad....sad, sad, sorry sad!

mike

jad22

That just sucks. In the ideal world, card companies wouldn't destroy autographs by sticking them on cards. Just another great money making ploy. I guess I should start collecting half signatures. Ty Co, Babe, it just seems so right.

iamthegreatcornholio

i saw this one earlier - uke snide

yawie99

I actually kinda like the cut-sig cards - as long as they're cut from run-of-the-mill type stuff and not from unique or historically significant items. But this Munson was a complete waste of an autograph. Who would bid on this?!?

julen23

This topic pervades so many message boards like ours. The entire argument is full of Catch 22's I think. You can preserve and not share the memory or cut and share the memory, thereby pi$$ing off tireless diehard fans of whichever player is being "butchered" as Joe says.

Remember a couple of years ago Topps got verbal consent from Babe Ruth's family to chop up 1 of his jersey's and distribute in their packs? I don't remember when this was, but do recall that Ruth's people had agreed based on the ideal of sharing his legacy versus keeping it for a single person.

I have no opinion in this matter, but there is a line of demarcation being drawn in every forum.

Julen
______
Collecting:
1980 Topps: Over 4,000 cards from vending and wax boxes awaiting a giant bonfire
1969 Topps Master: # 1 1
1987 Kraft Dinners Home Plate Heroes

Ruthfan

Card companies will continue to cut up these historic pieces as long as collectors continue to buy and chase this "junk" . I call it junk because in my opinion that's all it is. It amazes me that people will spend hundreds and sometimes thousands of dollars to purchase an item that has been cut up from it's original state just because it has been cut up and place on small piece of cardboard. I have seen it all too many times where a signature for a player that could be purchased in it's original state for a fraction of the cost of what someone will pay when its glued to a card and numbered by the card company. These items will hold no significant value over time as they are just novelty items and a chance for the card companies to rape historic items for pure greed and profit. I remember a while back when a Sweet Spot Signature Ted Williams card #9 of 9 was on Ebay and that last time I saw it the bidding was almost $5K. You can purchase a Ted Williams signed ball from anywhere from $400-$700 depending on the seller and someone would rather pay up to 10 times that for just a piece of the ball that was glued to cardboard with a #9 written on it. Yeah, thats intelligent. These people are in for some serious disapointment down the road when they try to unload this junk and they realize they will not even come close to recoup the money they shelled out to buy this stuff. Can anyone name one of these gimmic cards that have held their value after a year of being produced?

Ruthfan

Julen, Yeah I remember the Ruth jersey debacle real well. It was Donruss that was cutting up the jersey and distributing it. They did not need Ruth's daughter blessing as she had nothing to do with it but just be there for the ceremonial first cut. The jersey was owned by Dave Bushing and he auctioned it off and that is how Donruss got their hands on it. I let the Donruss representatives know in a not so subtle way at the 1993 Atlantic City National that they were pieces of crap for cutting up a national treasure just for the own greed.

jad22

How long do you think it will take card companies to to decide to attach hair and fingernails and other "cool" personal effects to cards. Why stop at destroying historic autographs? My God, do they know how much people would pay for a fist fill of Ruth Hair, or a frozen reminant of Ted. Everyone could own a peice of their favorite star. How needs to end the curse when they could have just dug it up and slapped it on a card.

Axtell

<< <i> a national treasure just for the own greed. >>



A national treasure? Come on now, are you serious?

It was a JERSEY. Not some historial document, but a baseball jersey of a guy who played BASEBALL.

I think some in this forum are getting *way* too emotional over every day items. If a baseball card company wants to spend some money and buy a canceled check to cut up and put onto a card for a fan to get, why is that a bad thing? How many Ruth jerseys do you suppose are out there? Thousands? What's wrong with cutting a few up to share with his fans? How many bats did Ted Williams use? How many card do you think can be made up of one bat?

I think we just all need to take a step back, take a grasp at reality, and see is it really worth getting that worked up over this stuff?

yawie99

Like I said before, I don't think it's a big deal if companies cut autographs from 3x5" cards, ordinary cancelled checks and the like. But I do agree with you, Ruthfan, that the price paid for some of these cards is insane relative to the value of the actual autograph. Upper Deck's first Legendary Cuts (or whatever they're called) hockey inserts included a Sid Abel card. I'm guessing you can pick up Abel autographs for $25-50, but one of his cut-sig cards (numbered to about 5, I think) sold for about a grand. Unreal!

julen23

DBH stated something in a previous post that I initially didn't understand, but see what he was meaning the more I read this thread.

"Don't discount the fact that many collectors want a piece of the player and ride the success of the player with them. Spending $1500 for a Bowman chrome auto Pujols IS a lot of money, but you also get the satisfaction of following your player (watching Baseball Tonight on ESPN and seeing Pujol go 3-4, drive in 3 runs and hit a homer or following him in the daily box scores). Will the day to day performance push the value of a $1500 modern card up much? No, but it's fun to own the card and outside fantasy baseball, there aren't many other tangible ways for a collector/fan to enjoy the success of their favorite player with them. "

Julen
_________
Collecting:
1980 Topps: Over 4,000 cards from vending and wax boxes awaiting a giant bonfire
1969 Topps Master: # 1 1
1987 Kraft Home Plate Heroes

Ruthfan

Axtell, the problem with people like you is that you just don't have a clue. Your response is idiotic. "How many Ruth jerseys do you suppose are out there? Thousands?" Yeah I am serious and yes, Babe Ruth was NOT just a baseball player but a national icon. He is by far the most famous baseball player of all time. I'll let you in on a secret, there are NOT thousands of his jerseys as you suggest. The jersey that Donruss cut up was a 1928 Yankee home jersey that was one of only two to exist in the world. Yeah, I think it's a travesty for them to cut up a NATIONAL TREASURE just so people like you can have the chance to own part of it.

I don't care if they want to take modern game used items that are mass produced and cut some of them up for their greed, but when you destroy SUPER RARE historical pieces that future generations will never get to see it disgusts me.

Axtell

Oh I am an idiot for making my opinion known? Good to know ruth.

So you're saying you'd rather have a jersey hidden somewhere in some museum, or have pieces of it on hundreds of cards that people can hold in their hands and have a part of history and own it?

Look I understand your passion, but I am not saying to cut up everything, every jesey, every bat, everything. But what's the significance of a canceled check? These players must have tons of that stuff floating around.

I think it's a travesty people get so worked up over items like jerseys and autos and the like...seems like a waste of energy.

Ruthfan

Yeah Ax, I am very passionate on this. Yes, I would rather have something in a museum where people for generations can come in and see something and learn the history of the person that worn or used that item. What are those people going to look at in 50 or 100 years? Now do you think someone is going to look at small piece of cardboard with a swatch of 1"x1" swatch of frabric and say Wow, Babe Ruth's jersey? If that was the case, we should just probably cut up the Delcaration of Indepence and distribute it in a thousand pieces so people can be in touch with American history. I look at like this, most collectors dream of owning a 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle or a T-T06 Honus Wagner. Now how many people do you think would just settle for just owning a slither of the card cut up and pasted on another card? I don't know of any. If people want to feel close to something let them view and enjoy it whole rather than cut up in a thousand pieces.

julen23

Declaration of Independance vs Ruth's Jersey?



"Was it over when German's bombed Pearl Harbor?"

Julen
______
Collecting:
1980 Topps: Over 4,000 cards from vending and wax boxes awaiting a giant bonfire
1969 Topps Master: # 1 1
1987 Kraft Dinners Home Plate Heroes

Axtell

<< <i>we should just probably cut up the Delcaration of Indepence and distribute it in a thousand pieces so people can be in touch with American history. >>



Come on now...they aren't even the same thing.

There is ONE declaration of independence, which is of importance to ALL americans.

Ruth wore hundreds of different jerseys...


Let's not get silly in our passion and comparing apples and oranges.

NickM

Ruthfan - I think there are 2 Ruth home jerseys left after Donruss cut one up (and I think there are at least as many road jerseys remaining, although 1 of those was cut up as well). I have no idea where Axtell got his # from.

As for bats, the card companies have told Beckett they normally get 1000 to 1200 slices from a bat, although badly cracked bats sometimes drop to 800 or so usable slices. [Jerseys are normally in the 1000 to 1500 range, with pants in a similar range.]

Oh, and IMO, the "Thurman Mu" autograph is disgusting.

Nick

iamthegreatcornholio

<< <i>Can anyone name one of these gimmic cards that have held their value after a year of being produced? >>



2001 SP Legendary cuts have appreciated despite UD making more and more over the years. Walter Johnson could be had for $300ish and now sells in excess of $1,300.

I used to collect these cards, but no longer do since I was afraid of the market saturating. One thing I did and would urge others to do if you collect, keep track of how much the autos sell for on a plain 3x5 (per ebay auctions or PSA's SMR). Take a ratio of the card price to that plain 3x5 price - the ones that appreciate have very low ratios (physically meaning their auto is worth a lot by itself).

Brian

Ruthfan

Ax, Ruth did not wear hundreds of jerseys as you suggest. Today is a whole different time period than from when he played or even 40 or 50 years ago. Today's player is issued so many jerseys each year it's hard to keep count but it Ruth's playing days that was not the case. I believe each player was issued four jerseys for each season, two home and two away. You take that with fact that people didn't know the value of these jersey so many of them did not stand the test of time. They were resused in the minor leagues, thrown out, etc. That is the reason Ruth's jersey or any vintage star jersey for that fact, bring so much at auction because they are so scarce and the supply out weighs the demand.