Dipped, cleaned, altered, changed...

dizzyfoxx

...In terms of a coin's surfaces, are these terms all interchangeable or are there distinct and/or drastic differences, regardless of what is "market acceptable". I would like to know different forum members' interpretations of changing a coins original surfaces (for any reason) to a newly derived surface

fc

dipped - means to me, dipped in any liquid, including soapy water with gentle agitation.

cleaned - to me, this means taking the coin and physically "rubbing" it with a foreign object.

altered - would be somehow changing the mint mark, coating it with something, etc..

changed - to generic, it does not remind me of anything.

ldhair

dipped - an acid based dip.

cleaned - any cleaning of the surface.

altered - altered surface. metal moved to hid problems.

changed - not sure.

grip

No there not,but two are very similar.Dipped/cleaned.Altered is in another class.
Only my opinion
Let's say you have a somewhat dirty dish,and would like to clean it,and you
just DIP it in warm water.No scrubing...I feal there is nothing wrong in this method,if you know what coin to dip
Than the next dish needs more than a DIP,you scrub it clean,and most likely leave hairline marks from doing so...Not recomended.
The next dish ,looks like hell,it's missing some detail from the design on the plate,
so you decide to add some detail=altered.Bodybag.
Best I could do,so it could be understood.
Al

ziggy29

Generally agreed with others. "Dipped" and "cleaned," while arguably related, are not the same process. Dipping is usually less destructive than cleaning; it merely strips toning (and some luster) off the coin. Cleaning is generally a more abrasive process (in the usual sense). Most dippings are considered less problematic than most cleanings, though in my opinion a mildly cleaned coin can sometimes have better eye appeal than a severely dipped out mint-state coin that's devoid of luster.

Alteration in numismatics refers typically to changing a feature of a coin, most often to fool people into thinking the coin is something it's not (as in adding or removing a mint mark or changing the date).

"Changed" really doesn't have a meaning in numismatics that I'm aware of.

AlaBill

Aren't we really talking about alteration of the coin surfaces, the degree of which we assign certain names; dipping, cleaning, altering, etc..

The common thread here is alteration and we arbitrarily decide that some amount of alteration is unacceptable but other amounts is acceptable.
Both are coin alterations, but only one appears to be unacceptable to the majority.

ziggy29

<< <i>Aren't we really talking about alteration of the coin surfaces, the degree of which we assign certain names; dipping, cleaning, altering, etc..

The common thread here is alteration and we arbitrarily decide that some amount of alteration is unacceptable but other amounts is acceptable.
Both are coin alterations, but only one appears to be unacceptable to the majority. >>

I agree anecdotally, but in numismatics, terms have a specific meaning. We don't talk about cleaned coins being "altered" -- we usually reserve that for coins that had features modified in order to pass it off as some date, mintmark or variety it's not.

lordmarcovan

<< <i>Dipped, cleaned, altered, changed... >>



I once bought a coin in an ACG holder that was all of the above.

ziggy29

<< <i>I once bought a coin in an ACG holder that was all of the above. >>

Uh-oh. Let's not make Jeremy whip out his seven-problem ANACS coin...

lordmarcovan

I love Jeremy's bust dime. I think it's an 1829. That's a classic.

PerryHall

Is there a difference between "curated" and "conserved"? Or is this just a fancy way of saying "cleaned"?

WANNABEDEALER

Curated is being charged for a service and a guarantee that the coin will grade at least the same as it was or better. Dipped is taking a huge risk. I have seem some curated coins that look great after foreign substances(not tonig) have been removed, like the coins from that fire. But look at some of the curated silver coins, some have an unnatural look, and copper can look worse.
This did not start with NCS, but rather when PCGS decided to grade the curated gold coins and not say it on their labels. I thought then it was a bad idea and still do.

veryfine

Again, I am compelled to put my two cents in on this issue.
A toned coin is one that has been exposed to the elements resulting in OXIDATION OR TARNISH. Some silver coins with deep oxidation may not dip well because the chemical reaction goes beyond the outermost surface layer. As others have said, it may also reveal undersirable hairlines.
HOWEVER, a one-time dipping can greatly improve the coin's appearance, if the luster is full and the coin has no unpleasant hairline surprises. I am no dipping expert, but if I bought an encapsulated bright white silver coin with full luster, I see the coin as it was originally struck, BRIGHT WHITE WITH CARTWHEEL LUSTER. In this case, the distracting oxidation has been removed from the coin. LIGHT color on a coin IS NOT distracting, and therefore, should be left alone. As I state my opinions, let me make it clear that I would not dip a coin and I don't suggest that you do. But, IMO, buying a SUCCESFULLY already dipped white coin can be a plus.
On the other hand, CLEANING usually refers to something abrasive, resulting in hairlines and an unnatural appearance. A major NO NO.

Murphy

I like to dip my proof Kennedy halves in acetone when they develope an ugly toning from their Dansco environment. After dipping and drying, they look as they did the day before I first got them. I find it's a great way to restore original First Day Color(some call it Pink - I call it original) to pennies. The ones that I've dipped haven't turned an unnatural tone later.

I have a friend in town who has booths at two different flea markets here. He has a "cleaning cloth" that he cleans his silver coins with. I walked in one day and saw him vigorously rubbing some silver dollars and almost dropped my jaw! I couldn't believe this guy who had taken the PCGS grading course and professed(really does) to know so much about coins could be scratching them up like that. He says it don't scratch them. I say how can it not scratch them! Does anyone know anything about cleaning cloths?

coolkarma

<< <i>I have a friend in town who has booths at two different flea markets here. He has a "cleaning cloth" that he cleans his silver coins with. I walked in one day and saw him vigorously rubbing some silver dollars and almost dropped my jaw! I couldn't believe this guy who had taken the PCGS grading course and professed(really does) to know so much about coins could be scratching them up like that. He says it don't scratch them. I say how can it not scratch them! Does anyone know anything about cleaning cloths? >>

Murphy

Very interesting. You should take a look at one of the coins. If he is uses an "old fashioned" cleaning cloth, there wll be lots and lots of hairlines. However, if it is a "teflon" (or similar) cleaning cloth, maybe not. It might only remove dirt and other foreign matter without scratching the coin. It shouldn't remove any toning. At least, that would be my guess. Interesting.

CoolKarma

cartwheel

Sorry, Murphy, but acetone is an organic solvent and will NOT remove toning.

Cartwheel