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Hypothetical #11 - Staple Scratch

MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,194 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
You're a well respected coin dealer showing some new purchases, all raw, to another well respected dealer. You price a gorgeous mint state 1879 dime at $2000 and the other dealer buys it, writes you a check and returns to his table. Less than FIVE MINUTES later, the dealer rushes back to your table, shows you a bad staple scratch on the coin that you both missed, and asks for a refund. Even though you missed the scratch at first, you have no doubt that it was there when you sold the coin. Will you give the requested refund?
Andy Lustig

Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.

Comments

  • constructconstruct Posts: 932
    Sorry, it's a done deal.
    The strangest things seem suddenly routine.
  • Steve27Steve27 Posts: 13,274 ✭✭✭
    " Will you give the requested refund? "

    Yes, but I don't see how both of us could have missed seeing the scratch.
    "It's far easier to fight for principles, than to live up to them." Adlai Stevenson
  • NicNic Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes.

    My 1866 Philly Mint Set

  • MadMartyMadMarty Posts: 16,697 ✭✭✭
    Yes, if the coin HAS NOT been removed. Plus if I new the scratch was there it would have been noted on the holder.
    It is not exactly cheating, I prefer to consider it creative problem solving!!!

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,277 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This needs to be worked out as one businessman to another. A refund should probably be made even though it may not actually be required.
    All glory is fleeting.
  • PTVETTERPTVETTER Posts: 5,925 ✭✭✭✭✭
    normal dealer to dealer transactions are done deals
    however every rule has an exceptions
    Pat Vetter,Mercury Dime registry set,1938 Proof set registry,Pat & BJ Coins:724-325-7211


  • TrimeTrime Posts: 1,863 ✭✭✭
    Probabably not required but two well respected Dealers would probably resolve this by the coin being returned for refund.
    Trime
  • elwoodelwood Posts: 2,414 ✭
    yes
    Please visit my website prehistoricamerica.com www.visitiowa.org/pinecreekcabins
  • nwcsnwcs Posts: 13,386 ✭✭✭
    If I want to keep the business relationship with the dealer, I refund the money. As we learned on the board long ago, if the words "done deal" were uttered, then who knows?
    Blog and Pics
  • constructconstruct Posts: 932


    << <i>If I want to keep the business relationship with the dealer, I refund the money. As we learned on the board long ago, if the words "done deal" were uttered, then who knows? >>



    Point well taken. May I please change my answer?
    The strangest things seem suddenly routine.
  • DHeathDHeath Posts: 8,472 ✭✭✭
    Yes. I plan to be in the business a long time.
    Developing theory is what we are meant to do as academic researchers
    and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
  • LongacreLongacre Posts: 16,717 ✭✭✭
    Yes becuase it is a fellow dealer and you want to create good business goodwill
    Always took candy from strangers
    Didn't wanna get me no trade
    Never want to be like papa
    Working for the boss every night and day
    --"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
  • ritepathritepath Posts: 266
    yes
    There's only One
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,065 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hard to believe that not one but TWO well-respected dealers missed a staple scratch. But then again its only a $2K coin and hardly worth more than a quick glance image. Its chump change to both parties but to maintain a good biz relationship I would refund the $2K.
    theknowitalltroll;
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,796 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, a simple mistake, little time has elapsed, no hard feelings. Two weeks later, no way.
    My Box of 20: https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/box-20/ryks-gold-box-20/17132
  • ziggy29ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭
    I wouldn't feel *required* to, but since I had no doubt the scratch was already there, I'd probably take it back as a goodwill gesture. I don't think this is worth losing goodwill or reputation over.

    I'd also file a mental note about my trading partner to make sure they don't make a habit of this.
  • JulianJulian Posts: 3,370 ✭✭✭
    Depending on my relationship with the dealer, I will probably try to take it back in trade, but if push came to shove, I would refund the money, if I valued that relationship.
    PNG member, numismatic dealer since 1965. Operates a retail store, also has exhibited at over 1000 shows.
    I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.

    eBaystore
  • ShamikaShamika Posts: 18,776 ✭✭✭✭
    Dealer to dealer transactions should be done deals. The coin is sold.
    Buyer and seller of vintage coin boards!
  • ss350camaross350camaro Posts: 4,529


    << <i>You're a well respected coin dealer showing some new purchases, all raw, to another well respected dealer. You price a gorgeous mint state 1879 dime at $2000 and the other dealer buys it, writes you a check and returns to his table. Less than FIVE MINUTES later, the dealer rushes back to your table, shows you a bad staple scratch on the coin that you both missed, and asks for a refund. Even though you missed the scratch at first, you have no doubt that it was there when you sold the coin. Will you give the requested refund? >>



    some responsability has to fall to the buyer to inspect the coin before purchase.

    I would be reluctant to give a refund.


  • cswcsw Posts: 432 ✭
    Will you give the requested refund?

    That's up to you. Should you? I don't know. Do you have to, legally? No.
    image

    Tiger trout, Deerfield River, c. 2001.

  • mgoodm3mgoodm3 Posts: 17,497 ✭✭✭


    << <i>If I want to keep the business relationship with the dealer, I refund the money. As we learned on the board long ago, if the words "done deal" were uttered, then who knows? >>




    good answer.
    coinimaging.com/my photography articles Check out the new macro lens testing section
  • prooflikeprooflike Posts: 3,879 ✭✭
    take the coin back, give the buyer 'credit'
    image
  • relayerrelayer Posts: 10,570 ✭

    I hate staples image
    image
    My posts viewed image times
    since 8/1/6
  • morgannut2morgannut2 Posts: 4,293 ✭
    Depends if it's the dealer that lied to me about that R-8 token, when he had a hoard. Memory is important in these situations.
    morgannut2
  • jcpingjcping Posts: 2,649 ✭✭✭
    Yes, I will refund him/her unless we agreed all sales are final before transaction was closed.
    an SLQ and Ike dollars lover
  • mozinmozin Posts: 8,755 ✭✭✭
    Unless a right of return was specified the deal should have been final. If that pin scratch was so small neither dealer noticed it initially, it probably made little difference in the value of the coin.
    I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,194 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Depends if it's the dealer that lied to me about that R-8 token, when he had a hoard. Memory is important in these situations.

    Good point. Professional courtesy is optional. No professional courtesy is warranted unless it is a two-way street.

    That said, in most cases I'd choose to refund the money. I want to preserve my relationship with the buyer and, more importantly, I want a reputation as somebody with whom people do not have to be overly cautious.
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • Gator5220Gator5220 Posts: 1,194
    Yes, to preserve the business relationship.
    image
    image
  • CalGoldCalGold Posts: 2,608 ✭✭


    << <i> I want a reputation as somebody with whom people do not have to be overly cautious. >>



    On a scale of 1 to 10 how much caution is needed before one reaches the overly cautious level?

    CG


    Edited to addimage given the level of beligerance that has permeated this forum of late, and noting that Andy has been unfairly on receiving end of some of that as a result of his posting these interesting hypotheticals.
  • relayerrelayer Posts: 10,570 ✭

    I REALLY hate staples anywhere near coins image
    image
    My posts viewed image times
    since 8/1/6
  • coinguy1coinguy1 Posts: 13,484 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Will you give the requested refund? >>

    Yes, AND it shouldn't and wouldn't matter who the buyer was.

    Why would you as a seller, be ok with someone (who has just done business with you) feeling the way that buyer would feel if you stuck him with the coin? 1) Intense dislike for the buyer image and 2) money are the only two reasons that come to mind, and neither is satisfactory/acceptable to me.
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,194 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why would you as a seller, be ok with someone (who has just done business with you) feeling the way that buyer would feel if you stuck him with the coin? 1) Intense dislike for the buyer and 2) money are the only two reasons that come to mind, and neither is satisfactory/acceptable to me.

    Mark - For the sake of simplicity and symetry, what if the buyer had in a previous deal refused to give you a refund on a similar deal?
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • ddinkddink Posts: 2,748
    You might as well, because if you don't he'll stop payment on the check image

    EDIT:

    << <i>Mark - For the sake of simplicity and symetry, what if the buyer had in a previous deal refused to give you a refund on a similar deal? >>


    Then screw 'em--although he'll still probably stop payment on the check =(
    I heard they were making a French version of Medal of Honor. I wonder how many hotkeys it'll have for "surrender."
  • NewmismatistNewmismatist Posts: 1,802 ✭✭
    Both dealers missed the bad staple scratch image- this one's like musical chairs - when the music stops the guy holding the coin loses.
    Collecting eye-appealing Proof and MS Indian Head Cents, 1858 Flying Eagle and IHC patterns and beautiful toned coins.

    “It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” Mark Twain
    Newmismatist
  • coinguy1coinguy1 Posts: 13,484 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Mark - For the sake of simplicity and symetry, what if the buyer had in a previous deal refused to give you a refund on a similar deal? >>

    Andy, I might not do future business with such a person (as described in my previous quote below).



    << <i>Why would you as a seller, be ok with someone (who has just done business with you) feeling the way that buyer would feel if you stuck him with the coin? 1) Intense dislike for the buyer and 2) money are the only two reasons that come to mind, and neither is satisfactory/acceptable to me >>

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