Guess the grade: English hammered

Aethelred · June 19, 2005 12:48PM

This coin is on it's way back to me from an extended vacation at Newport Beach, care to take a guess at the grade?

BTW - It is a Henry VII Groat from the 1499-1502 issue.

spinaker2000 · June 19, 2005 12:53PM

looks as though it was wacked with a hammer!

MSD61 · June 19, 2005 1:07PM

VG-10?? I don't know how PCGS grades on ancients:HMMMMM

Bailathacl · June 19, 2005 1:19PM

I'm guessing VF.... but I'm more generous grading others' coins than my own....

Sylvestius · June 19, 2005 3:00PM

I'd say AF.

1jester · June 19, 2005 6:58PM

Which service? My guess is VF-35.

ajaan · June 19, 2005 7:12PM

The grading service is Newport Beach = PCGS.

Can I guess Mikey???????? What is the prize for the winner?

rhound1977 · June 19, 2005 7:55PM

I have no idea what grade Henry VII completed, did he go to College?

JZrarities · June 19, 2005 9:29PM

PCGS: VF-20

CoinAddict · June 19, 2005 11:50PM

Dude looks like a lady.

I will guess F.

weresteve · June 20, 2005 3:42AM

Hmmm ... I'll hazard a guesstimate at XF-45 just cause of the whacky way PCGS grades darkside coins ...

Aethelred · June 20, 2005 8:01AM

<< Dude looks like a lady.

>>

I Richard III said the same thing and you see what Henry did to him!!!

CoinAddict · June 20, 2005 8:29AM

Exactly what did Henry do to Richard, Michael? I don't remember learning about that in History class.

Darkhorse · June 20, 2005 8:30AM

i know the grade

Aethelred · June 20, 2005 8:30AM

<< Exactly what did Henry do to Richard, Michael? I don't remember learning about that in History class.

>>

Bosworth Field!

Aethelred · June 20, 2005 8:30AM

<< i know the grade

>>

You and Don can't play!

Darkhorse · June 20, 2005 8:30AM

<< The grading service is Newport Beach = PCGS. >>

Well, the PO box is at least.

Aethelred · June 20, 2005 8:32AM

<< 

<< The grading service is Newport Beach = PCGS. >>

Well, the PO box is at least. >>

Don't fly too close to the sun Phil.

Darkhorse · June 20, 2005 8:54AM

It's close enough to Newport Beach to consider it Newport Beach.

ajaan · June 20, 2005 9:29AM

It's all California, a foreign land.

coinkat · June 20, 2005 10:06AM

These are always tough to grade. And there is alot to consider. Was it clipped? The strike? Lustre and wear? I would say this one is F-15 but the problem is if you see the coin in its actual size, it will and should look better so VF-20 is possible. Overall, it is a decent example.

Darkhorse · June 20, 2005 10:13AM

got any more pics of it Aethelred?

Aethelred · June 20, 2005 10:19AM

<< got any more pics of it Aethelred? >>

Why yes, I happen to have some very nice pics that I will post in just a bit.

Aethelred · June 20, 2005 12:33PM

Here is the better pic that Phil spoke of:

MSD61 · June 20, 2005 1:11PM

Wow, with that pic I'll have to change my guess. I say VF-20 Mike.

Sylvestius · June 20, 2005 3:10PM

With the new pic i'd slide from my original guess of AF up to an F.

Most coin books i know of list the top grade as VF for hammered, EF examples exist and i have seen pictures of them, EF in hammered is what i'd call AU/UNC in most other series. VF in hammered based at the specimens i've looked at tends to fall to EF in milled. F in hammered tends to look F/VF in milled. VG looks what would grade AF and below in milled. But of course it all depends upon the series as VG/F/VF mean different things in different hammered coin serieses. Norman coins grading as F wouldn't look F in Henry VII terms. It's a bit complex.

So F i stand, there's a fair bit of wear on that obverse, the hair on the right especially so.

mallard · June 20, 2005 3:31PM

I know what grade it is

1jester · June 20, 2005 3:38PM

Now why wouldn't a coin, regardless of its age or method of mintage, be graded according to its wear characteristics and luster?????

Sylvestius brings up some interesting points, and says that the coin has "a fair bit of wear on that obverse, the hair on the right especially so." And he assigns a grade of F, which means F-12 on a 0-70 scale. Well, in my opinion, a F-12 coin should have so much wear that most details are worn smooth. That is not what I see on this coin at all. I see a coin that has virtually all details visible, including minute details of the crown, face, decorations around the head and in the lettering, and on the reverse the same thing: minute details in the lettering and decorations, and even in the balls in the center, which aren't even worn flat. That all leads us to the inescapable conclusion: this coin has seen very little wear, hardling warranting a F-12 grade. More like an XF-45 or above. By the way, I don't see too much wear on the obverse and in the hair; that is almost certainly a result of the method of striking the coin, which is as a rule uneven on hammered coins, and also dependent on the flan and dies themselves. Of course, it's necessary to take into consideration that the coin has some signs of age, including some grunge in the devices, and perhaps some corrosion. But would I give this coin a F-12? No way; I'm sticking with my uneducated guess of VF-35.

ajaan · June 20, 2005 6:19PM

Sylvestius is using British grading standards, the coin is graded by PCGS. So aethelred is looking for your guess of the PCGS grade.

Sylvestius · June 21, 2005 2:12AM

<< And he assigns a grade of F, which means F-12 on a 0-70 scale. Well, in my opinion, a F-12 coin should have so much wear that most details are worn smooth... >>

Having looked on onlinecoins, seems i was a little harsh, i'll budge a little further up to AVF/VF.

I am by nature a very harsh grader, even of my own stuff.

1jester · June 21, 2005 5:12AM

And I'm often a bit generous. I wonder what PCGS says??!!! Not that it really matters....heh heh

ajaan · June 21, 2005 5:48AM

<< I wonder what PCGS says >>

What's it worth to ya?

Sylvestius · June 21, 2005 5:55AM

<< 

<< I wonder what PCGS says >>

What's it worth to ya?

>>

Well whatever they said, they were wrong.

Doesn't mean i'm right, i just means we're both wrong. But they're a little bit more wrong than me!

Aethelred · June 21, 2005 7:38AM

<< Having looked on onlinecoins, seems i was a little harsh, i'll budge a little further up to AVF/VF.

I am by nature a very harsh grader, even of my own stuff. >>

I am a bit harsh myself, I graded it F, but PCGS gave it a VF-30.

coinkat · June 21, 2005 7:45AM

congrats. It is a decent example.

ajaan · June 21, 2005 8:19AM

I guess VF+

MSD61 · June 21, 2005 9:07AM

I guessed VF-20 missed it by ten

JZrarities · June 21, 2005 9:44AM

VF-30 ?

1jester · June 21, 2005 2:09PM

OK! I think PCGS is just about right on with the grade, even a bit conservative....

Where's my prize, Aetheldead?!

Sylvestius · June 21, 2005 2:41PM

<< 

<< Having looked on onlinecoins, seems i was a little harsh, i'll budge a little further up to AVF/VF.

I am by nature a very harsh grader, even of my own stuff. >>

I am a bit harsh myself, I graded it F, but PCGS gave it a VF-30. >>

Glad to know i'm not alone in being stingy!

Guess the grade: English hammered

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