Nice to see what dealers really think about their customers.

schr1st

From the Beckett Messageboards It's times like this that I'm glad PSA doesn't have any sort of conflict of interest between it's subscribers/readers and a dealer marketplace that can make demands like that.

ctsoxfan

It took a while to get through that - thanks for the link. I don't buy anything from this "marketplace" anyway (nor did I even know it existed, probably like most of us), but it doesn't surprise me at all to read this.

Stone193

This reminds me of the day - back in the late 80's when Beckett stated to anything other than "report" the buying trends of collectors would be a total conflict of interest.

That day has passed forever.

mike

Axtell

I still don't see how it's not an incredible conflict of interest....they started out as a price guide, which a lot of people (good or bad) use as pricing...now they grade the cards, and can easily influence prices up or down in the magazine they publish?

Very shady.

Raymond

Edit...

ndleo

One of the dealers did make a good point - Are ebay'ers really card shop customers?

From the majority of posters on this board, I sense that card shops are the last place you buy cards. I can see why they are upset.

Personally I do want a viable alternative to ebay. The fees between ebay and paypal are approaching 10%. And they will only go up in the future since this is the only way the make money. Ebay has a near monopoly and can raise prices at will.

schr1st

I'd love to see a viable, lower cost alternative to eBay. Naxcom still seems like they are "working the kinks out", Bidville comes across as the "dirt mall" to borrow the phrase from "Mallrats", and Amazon auctions are toast (aren't they? who knows or cares). The only place that even seems like a possible alternative is Yahoo auctions (especially with their move to no listing or closing fees), but it'll take a few heavy hitters combined with active account policing by Yahoo (something I don't know if they are willing to do) for it to take off.

And yes, I was the one that uploaded the "evil monkey" stamp image. Feel free to use it, it just might get a bit confusing in this post.



<< <i>One of the dealers did make a good point - Are ebay'ers really card shop customers?

From the majority of posters on this board, I sense that card shops are the last place you buy cards. I can see why they are upset.

Personally I do want a viable alternative to ebay. The fees between ebay and paypal are approaching 10%. And they will only go up in the future since this is the only way the make money. Ebay has a near monopoly and can raise prices at will. >>

jrdolan

Beckett Conspiracy Rant #112:

The relationship between Beckett and the dealers in Beckett Marketplace has always been somewhat incestuous. It's funny that they are complaining about eBay, when Beckett in its own magazine gushes about prices realized on eBay for some BGS 9.5 card or whizbang insert. (They usually don't mention that the seller and some of the shil ... I mean bidders ... are their own BMP dealers and market manipulators in the field). They like to use eBay to influence prices, drive sales at the BMP stores, and make the card manufacturers happy, but the dealers don't like the great brainwashed masses actually shopping on eBay.

Something about that logic is screwy, because both Beckett and its dealers need eBay. BMP couldn't handle the volume if it wanted to, and eBay is necessary to help reinforce prices. If all the BMP dealers overcharge the same amount for a particular card, the collusion is pretty obvious. But if you have some carefully controlled eBay sales to support those prices ..... It's the uncontrolled sales, the actual market value being determined, that they don't like.

Thus the prices in Beckett Monthly tend to reflect the prices in closed-market BMP, the prices that Beckett dealers want to receive, rather than the more realistic prices in the open market.

End of Beckett Conspiracy Rant #112.

schr1st

At least this rant is keeping them from complaining about Beckett droping card prices like they normally do!

Raymond

Beckett thread deleated...

Lasted longer then I thought.

jsnpritchett

Raymond, that's ok. I now have a link to this thread in my sig on the Beckett board, so we'll keep it alive.

Jason

schr1st

Looks like someone woke up.

I'm willing to bet that anyone bringing the issue up will get banned, so let's just see what happens.



<< <i>Beckett thread deleated...

Lasted longer then I thought. >>

jsnpritchett

I just sent the following e-mail to all of the posters in that thread. I wonder if any will bother responding?

"I wanted to write to all of you to express my displeasure with the thread that was posted on the Beckett message board late last night. While I understand that it was meant to be kept private, I feel that some of the sentiments expressed by you in that thread show a distinct lack of caring about your customers.

While I'm by no means a "high dollar customer" for any of you, I do consistently buy from virtually all of you. I've made almost 40 purchases from the marketplace in the past 2 years, mainly to pick up singles to fill voids in my player collections. Typically, your prices are higher than they should be (but thankfully not as high as Burbank Sportscards...), but the ease of finding multiple cards from different stores in one central location makes up for that.

However, after reading that thread, and seeing the disdain you appear to have for customers like me, I must say that I'm seriously considering never ordering from any of you again. Referring to anyone who buys on eBay as a "Fleabayer," calling us "price hunters," and generally seeming to look down on anyone who doesn't want to pay more for a card than they should have to just put me ill at ease.

You're in a customer-driven business. If a consumer can find the same card for a lower price somewhere else, whether it be eBay or another store, then instead of talking down to that customer, perhaps you should be working to win over that customer. Unfortunately, your posts in that thread are not the answer.

I would strongly suggest being more active on the message boards and convincing people who post there why they SHOULD buy from you. Don't view posters on the free message boards as enemies, or you could be losing a lot of potential customers. Just my thoughts...

Best,

Jason Pritchett"

Jason

jsnpritchett

Sean and Raymond: I've just been suspended from the Beckett boards. Have you guys also been booted?

Jason

schr1st

In whatever you do, don't go after Wayne Bailey (Bailey's Sportscards). Wayne is a great guy, and was actually in there swinging for us. Don't lump him in there with the rest of them.

jsnpritchett

<< <i>In whatever you do, don't go after Wayne Bailey (Bailey's Sportscards). Wayne is a great guy, and was actually in there swinging for us. Don't lump him in there with the rest of them. >>



No worries, Sean. Wayne wasn't included in the e-mail that I sent. He seemed to be entirely rational in that thread.

Jason

Raymond

Edit...

Raymond

<< <i>Sean and Raymond: I've just been suspended from the Beckett boards. Have you guys also been booted?

Jason >>



Nope. Not yet. But I will be if they see my cut and pastes here.

Temporary suspension or permanent?

schr1st

To be on the safe side, I'd say remove it from here.

jsnpritchett

<< <i>
Nope. Not yet. But I will be if they see my cut and pastes here.

Temporary suspension or permanent? >>



Just temporary, Raymond. If I was you, I'd leave up the cut and paste, but I can understand Sean's stance for taking it down. I've got the whole thread saved on e-mail, so if anyone ever wants it, I'm more than happy to share.

Jason

Raymond

I took it down. Didn't want to, but I don't need the hassles. Not so much worried about suspensions, but any possible legal headaches that may come of this....

Interesting that the mods didn't kill the link in your sig...

jsnpritchett

<< <i>I took it down. Didn't want to, but I don't need the hassles.

Interesting that the mods didn't kill the link in your sig... >>



My guess is that they haven't noticed it. Now that you've taken the text of the thread down, though, there's nothing in this thread that Beckett should be all that worried about. I'll leave the link in my sig for now, I guess.

Jason

Raymond

I figured that it was the link that got you in trouble. What else did you do on that thread since I'm not banned (yet!)????

jsnpritchett

<< <i>I figured that it was the link that got you in trouble. What else did you do on that thread since I'm not banned (yet!)???? >>



I posted a thread after the initial one got deleted, saying that I was surprised it lasted that long. I'm assuming that's why they nailed me. Under the infamous "Acceptable Use Policy," it mentions that posting about deleted threads or suspended members is a violation.

I'm not particularly concerned. I'll be back on there later this evening, and, like I said, I've got the text of the thread saved--as I'm sure several others do, as well.

Jason

Raymond

Yeah, I got it saved too...

jsnpritchett

For some reason, they haven't deleted Daeyel's thread over there yet, although it was locked & I have a feeling they've suspended him, too. At least 3 other threads have been deleted since they nailed mine. They're taking this pretty seriously.

Jason

rlankhaar

Very interesting thread on the Beckett boards-and kinda illuminating on how dealers do their pricing. One of the dealers in the thread is a guy who's store has some cards I need for a set I'm working on. I've been looking at them for a year now, and I don't think he's moved anything in that time. His prices are exactly 75% of high Beckett (down to the cent). Now I don't expect to pay eBay prices when I buy something from a dealer, but I think asking $40 for a card that usually sells on eBay for $8-15 is pretty ridiculous.

That's what bugs me about the Beckett Marketplace-the selection is usually great for singles, but the prices are usually set to a percentage of Beckett "value" thats so high as to be absurd.

jsnpritchett

75% of high Beckett is actually a GOOD deal from a marketplace seller, from what I've seen. Burbank Sportscards and some other big sellers typically charge full high book value.

Jason

jrdolan

Maybe Beckett is onto something. If SMR were based on the prices charged by only the most expensive PSA dealers, rather than ALL sales including eBay, we'd see a big jump in "book" values across the board. Not real value, just "book" value. Like changing the "B" on your own report card to "B+" or putting a SAAB hood ornament on your Plymouth Neon. That would be fun.

For a couple hours.

HoofHearted

Can someone PM me a copy of the referred-to thread on Beckett?

Thanks,

hh

jsnpritchett

<< <i>Can someone PM me a copy of the referred-to thread on Beckett?

Thanks,

hh >>



Sent. Let me know if you have any trouble with it.

Jason

tedh111

I have a beckett marketplace store and i missed what the post said, but it is very interesting to see both sides of the story. I have only been a marketplace dealer for a handful of months, but i have been a show dealer for the last 4 years and a beckett board memebr for about the same. I agree with point made on both sides of the issue. I think some dealers get the wrong impression from collector's and i think some collector's have the wrong impression of dealres and what goes on behind "Closed doors".

Raymond

I e-mailed you the thread in question. Kindly post your thoughts after you read it as you are the only MarketPlace dealer to publicly respond since this came out...

yankeeno7

It was very interesting to read how some of these dealers view their customers and how people should buy and sell.
I have a friend who actually has a successful store and once made a great point....
Most dealers say they can not survive because of ebay where he says he couldnt survive WITHOUT ebay. Ebay allows these guys to move product they could never sell at a storefront or at shows. Try selling a Seattle Mariners or Oakland A's card in upstate NY. Just doesnt happen very often.
If you depend on most of your business coming from BMP then I wouldnt think you could be too successful. On the other hand, using BMP will help your success. Cash flow baby, cash flow.
Almost scary because it looks like many of the dealers opinions are that customers aren't intelligent. Or are they just trying to scare off competition and thinking that limiting customers will help their business?
If you ask me, there are some who are really shooting themselves in the foot!

tedh111

I did read the thread on the dealer only board, but i was interested to see what the beckett board members had to say about it... To tell you the truth, i am not sure exactly what to think. The beckett dealers do have a bit of a leg to stand on, as there have been more "Commercial" links and dealers who are using the beckett boards as an advertising tool. Since us beckett dealers are paying a heft sum to be part of the site, there are many who feel that beckett needs to help give us some king of edge. Currently, they are working on more things such as ads and banners that promote the marketplace, and beckett marketplace dealers are not supposed to spam the boards, while ohter users are able to. I am fine with the regular everday users mentioning their ebay auctions or their trade sites, but i can see the argument against the commercial links. That being said, I do not think that the marketplace dealers are aware that most of us beckett board members are against the spam links as well. i do not think they are aware of the turket that comes out every so often or the can of spam. As for the prices on the marketplace, every person has a different way of selling. I try and sell as cheap as i can... usually around half book, but i do have to add a bit extra because i am trying provide more of a service then what i normally may do at a show or through ebay. I try and make my sit easier to find things and make it a one stop shop for buyers where they can come back to and rely on the services i provide.... This is how burbank sportscards can sell at the prices that they do.... Where else can you type in one search term and find hundreds of something that is very obscure, like a small time player who was never a star? They provide a great service and they make people pay for it. In the end, i think both ebay and the marketplace are great places to sell and i wish that us marketplace dealers had a better rep with collectors, as the service we can provide as a collective whole can be a great help to all collector's.
-Ted

Brooksie05

Hello, this is James Feagin from the Beckett boards. If someone can e-mail me the thread at spookythecat01@netzero.com I would appreciate it. Who was suspended, Pritchett and Daeyel??

jsnpritchett

<< <i>Hello, this is James Feagin from the Beckett boards. If someone can e-mail me the thread at spookythecat01@netzero.com I would appreciate it. Who was suspended, Pritchett and Daeyel?? >>



James:

E-mail sent. Apparently, a Beckett marketplace dealer responded to another thread I started a while ago, but that one ended up being deleted, too. I left to see a movie soon after I posted it, so I guess I missed out on whatever happened. Did anyone else see it?

Jason

Raymond

E-mail sent. Please reply your thoughts here, as Beckett is censoring it highly in their forums...

SDavid

I'd like to see it if someone could pm it to me. Thanks.

Raymond

Diamond came in and talked about customer service and security being worth a lot and they e-bay will screw you.

He got taken down by users with long memories involving them:
1) Item sold for $200. Buyer told "Not in inventory-sorry". Then got sold on e-bay for $275
2) Member didn't get his cards from diamonds. Did a chargeback and got suspended (Jeff N0.

Diamond didn't reply. The thread got canned...

stown

Please PM me the thread.

N162Collector

http://www.beckett.com/iforum/view.asp?mode=viewtopic&topicID=712837&forumID=10&catID=3&forumPageNo=1

Someone (Read: me) joined and posted this.

SDavid

I still haven't read the thread, but if BMP dealers are complaining about ebay, then why do they buy from there?

One of my first sales on ebay was to Burbank Sportscards.

goudeygold

This whole thing is retarded. the dealers are trying to band together to try to buck the "wholesale" buying opportunity that is ebay. Because ebay is so "market correct" the dealers essentially have little resources to buy cards (how many times were you screwed before ebay?!) for a fraction of their "real value" because you can easily just throw it up on ebay. I've sold cards to 707, and i'm sure he then sold them for well more than double his buying price. Personally, I don't feel there is ANY way for dealers to realistically be able to survive and make decent money when overhead costs essentially run around 30%. My guess is Beckett is simply going to try to give the dealers an edge by inflating book, and having this whole beckett marketplace where they can simply TRY to band together and keep prices high. Its going to do nothing more than push people away from collecting. the market cannot be controlled. If a dealer can't compete, then he should go internet only, or find another job. pre-war and high quality vintage is indeed drying up, so it surely isn't going to get any better. Their last hope is modern, but whosale dealers on ebay have taken that away as well.

There is NO logic to buying from a dealer that charges $100 for the card, when they bought it on ebay last week for $60. The marketplace is changing, and its evolve or die. If card shows go by the wayside, then that may be a side effect of having "whosale" for everyone on ebay.

Personally, I'll pay more than book for certain rare cards i'm looking for because life is too short to piss and moan over $20 when you haven't seen the card in 2 years. but if I can find the card on ebay, i'll buy it there. No sales tax and shipped to my door. thankfully very very few storefront dealers have any pre-war cards, as its a no brainer to sell and buy them on ebay.

ebay is a consumer goldmine, pure and simple.

GG

goudeygold

beckett search for PSA 8,700 results (very few high dollar items)
ebay search for psa 21,000 results.

everything I saw on becketts marketplace is stupid high anyway.

they will never succeed, moot point.

GG

please PM me the thread by the way!

sagard

Please PM me the thread as well if you get a chance.

CollectorChris

Could someone please send me the thread? Thanks!

jsnpritchett

I've sent PMs to everyone who requested the thread. Please let me know if it does not work.

Jason

CollectorChris

Got it. Thanks jsnpritchett!

goudeygold

didn't get it, try again.

GG

Brooksie05

As a "fleabayer" I am grateful that it is my turn to set the rules. For so many years we had to pay what the dealers deemed what we should pay. I also think it is a moot point. Beckett can try to have it both ways, but they will ultimately fail. Go to a card show and mention you bought a certain card on "e-bay", most professional dealers will get a little annoyed. Personally, I will always pay a little more to get the convenience of a card at a show. However, what does BMP offer me that a show, storefront, or e-bay can't? Nothing! With any dying industry, purveyors either have to adapt or find another business. Insulting customer's and conspiring to keep reputable Beckett group-buy people (anything u) will drive people away from them by the droves. Personally, I never have used BMP, and I probably never will.