Harold Baines vs. Brooks Robinson
Axtell
Posts: 10,037 ✭✭
in Sports Talk
I was looking up the all-time hits leaders today, and noticed that for every eligible player in the top 40 all time hits, Harold Baines is the ONLY one not in the hall.
I noticed Brooksie had about 20 fewer hits, had a career batting average 20 points lower, had over 100 fewer HRs, 300+ less RBIs, and nearly 100 points less in OPS than Baines, and both had similar length of careers.
My question: is Brooks just overrated, or is Baines underrated? Yes, Baines DHed, but that's still a position as defined as MLB.
I noticed Brooksie had about 20 fewer hits, had a career batting average 20 points lower, had over 100 fewer HRs, 300+ less RBIs, and nearly 100 points less in OPS than Baines, and both had similar length of careers.
My question: is Brooks just overrated, or is Baines underrated? Yes, Baines DHed, but that's still a position as defined as MLB.
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Comments
Dave Kingman and Jose Canseco hit well over 400 home runs, do you want them in the hall of fame? Do you rate them above some great players that hit fewer home runs? There is much more to baseball than offense.
Abe
<< <i>
Dave Kingman and Jose Canseco hit well over 400 home runs, do you want them in the hall of fame? Do you rate them above some great players that hit fewer home runs? There is much more to baseball than offense.
Abe >>
Did I say simply home runs?
I said Baines had nearly 3000 hits, and everyone in the top 40 all time hits is in the hall (or will be, when they are eligible).
Why is Baines being excluded?
My whole point that you completely overlooked is that Harold Baines was a very good hitter, but he was never a great player. Brooks Robinson was never a great hitter but he was a great player. There has to be, or again, should be something great about a player that puts them in the hall of fame. What has Baines got? A lot of hits over a lot of years. In my opinion a better argument can be made for why Al Oliver isnt' in the hall of fame than Harold Baines. How about Jim Rice? Bruce Sutter? Rich Gossage? But Harold Baines? I just don't see it. The hall of fame is about greatness, not big numbers over many years.
Abe
comparision between the two. One was a beast and the other a decent player.
Can you honestly see Baines jersey sitting next to Dimaggio and Mantle's? Again....if you must discuss why a guy needs to be in the hall
then he shouldn't be in the hall!
JS
<< <i>
Can you honestly see Baines jersey sitting next to Dimaggio and Mantle's? Again....if you must discuss why a guy needs to be in the hall
then he shouldn't be in the hall!
JS >>
I wasn't discussing WHY he needs to be in, I was asking why ISN'T he in the hall. And what's wrong with a Baines jersey in the hall?
Career Leaders for On-base %
If you don't like the important OBP catergory I can find several others for you.
<< <i>Baines played in the outfield and DH most of his life. Brooksie played the hot corner and was one of the best. There is NO
comparision between the two. One was a beast and the other a decent player.JS >>
Stalin, you took the words right out of my mouth
<< <i>Axtey, do all of these active players in the top 40 OBP deserve to be in the Hall of Fame?:
Career Leaders for On-base %
If you don't like the important OBP catergory I can find several others for you. >>
OBP can be misleading...how do you account for someone who only played a few years? He hit for average (lifetime .289 hitter) and for power (nearly 400 HRs in a pre-steroid era).
You are missing my point entirely.
<< <i> There is much more to baseball than offense.
Abe >>
But McGwire will be a first ballot HoFer.
No, you are missing my point. You have selective reading syndrome. You read only what you want to read. I can find another category even as important as hits and you will be suprised who you find there.
I am not so sure about that. Eventually he probably get in but he has taken a big hit with his congressional testimony. Several potential HOF sportswriter voters have gone on record saying that they will not vote for McGwire.
<< <i><<But McGwire will be a first ballot HoFer.>>
I am not so sure about that. Eventually he proabably get in but he has taken a big hit with his congressional testimony. Several potential HOF sportswriter voters have gone on record saying that they will not vote for McGwire. >>
So what? He'll still ride in easily over the margin and be a first ballot HoFer. Who cares if a couple of 'potential' voters have said that?
Same with Baines. Good player, but not a HOFer.
another brilliant analysis.
better call the HOF and get Brooks knocked out
simply brilliant.
<< <i>edited.
another brilliant analysis.
better call the HOF and get Brooks knocked out
simply brilliant. >>
Oh murcerfan, the yankees win and you come out from hiding under the bed.
When did I call for brooks to get knocked out? I simply asked why Baines receives no support for the hall is all.
You, sir, are the 'brilliant' one.
I remember the White Sox inexplicably retired his number when he was sent to Texas. But he was a 5 or 6 time all-star and they hadnt had many of those up to that point.
Nice steady quiet hitter. Hall of Fame? Not by a long shot.
Brooks overrated? Not by a long shot.
<< <i>
Take Brooks out? That was the best laugh Ive had all day. >>
I am still waiting for someone to show me where I suggested Brooks didn't belong in the Hall?
I was simply pointing out that Baines had quietly put up some great numbers, and used Brooks as a reference due to the similarity in number of hits, with baines holding significant better HR and RBI numbers.
<< <i>You are right Axtell- My bad. Edited my comment. >>
Not so much yours, but murcer boy said the same thing...and I never attempted to suggest that.
<< <i>Harold Baines is the ONLY one not in the hall. >>
Maybe I'm missing something, but he isn't even elegible for the HOF yet (won't be until 2007). Regardless, I don't think he will get in.
And, no, Brooks is not overrated. Simply the best defensive 3rd baseman period.
Robert
Any high grade OPC Jim Palmer
High grade Redskins (pre 1980)
On that note, does ANYONE on this list for 2006 look like they have even a remote chance?
2006: Rick Aguilera, Tim Belcher, Will Clark, Alex Fernandez, Gary Gaetti, Dwight Gooden, Ozzie Guillen, Juan Guzman, Orel Hershiser, Gregg Jefferies, Lance Johnson, Doug Jones, Roberto Kelly, Mickey Morandini, Hal Morris, Jaime Navarro, Luis Polonia, Mike Stanley, Walt Weiss, John Wetteland, Mark Whiten
Is 2006 the year players like Rice and others who have bene on the edge finally make it in?
Brooks, on the other hand, was a key mainstay for championship teams....and the most ungodly defensive third baseman that ever put on a uniform. IMO. Regards.
I would pay to see Brooks play...but not Harold.
Sorry.
hh