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Grading circulated coins. vf-20, vf-25, vf-30, vf-35
veryfine
Posts: 1,763 ✭✭✭
There are always countless discussions regarding mint state coin grading. We all know how important this is because the values can vary dramatically from one grading point to another.
It seems as if grading circulated coins is pretty much cut and dry with very little room for debate.
However, I would like some opinions on the Very Fine grade.
And not just because it happens to be my username.
Personally, I have noticed that the point designation for this particular grade can be somewhat subjective. How many of you show the same coin to 4 different people, each grading it a different vf grade, from vf20 to vf35?
Perhaps it isn't an important issue because in many cases, the difference in price among the vf grades is negligible. But, have you ever purchased a vf-35 from one grading service, then had it come back certified vf-20 from another?
It seems as if grading circulated coins is pretty much cut and dry with very little room for debate.
However, I would like some opinions on the Very Fine grade.
And not just because it happens to be my username.
Personally, I have noticed that the point designation for this particular grade can be somewhat subjective. How many of you show the same coin to 4 different people, each grading it a different vf grade, from vf20 to vf35?
Perhaps it isn't an important issue because in many cases, the difference in price among the vf grades is negligible. But, have you ever purchased a vf-35 from one grading service, then had it come back certified vf-20 from another?
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Having said that, do we really need four VF grades? VF-25 is, IMO, arguably the most useless "accepted" grade on the numerical scale (AU-53 is another contender).
The difference between 20 and 25, between 25 and 30, and between 30 and 35 is often splitting hairs. It's sometimes easy to identify coins that are a solid 20 (barely, but clearly, meeting VF guidelines) and coins that are a solid 35 (mostly XF detail but lacking in some way that prevents an XF designation). But there's enough in between that it's hard to reach consensus even among accomplished graders. Personally if it's a "tweener" coin in the VF category, ditch VF-25, call it a VF-30 and move on...
<< <i>Perhaps it isn't an important issue because in many cases, the difference in price among the vf grades is negligible. But, have you ever purchased a vf-35 from one grading service, then had it come back certified vf-20 from another? >>
I can think of a few third-world slabs where a full XF-40 might come back VF-20 with a reputable service...and not just because ANACS net graded a problem coin down to VF-20, either.
It seems like a fine grade to me. No wait, very fine.
If we have 4 VF grades what will they think of next? 11 MS grades!!!
Joe.
<< <i>Personally I think 4 VF grades are too many. I like two grades ie. F-12 and F-15. One coin makes the grade and the other is obviously better but not the next grade.
If we have 4 VF grades what will they think of next? 11 MS grades!!!
Joe.
Shhh!
Don't encourage 'em. "Hmmm... VF20, VF21, VF22, VF23... a whole new area to milk those gullible collectors!"
I once asked Q. David Bowers about the VF-35 grade, and why it wasn't described in the ANA grading guide. He responded that VF-35 was not an official grade, and that it shouldn't be used. I then asked why one of the very few half dimes I had ever purchased from Bowers & Merena was graded VF-35, and he never answered.
I think that grading has always been a very subjective and personal thing, and if you like to differentiate between the various VF grades in your own collection, then go right ahead. But if what you are asking is why isn't there more consistency between these four grades in the TPG's, come on. Get real. When has there ever been any consistency in third party grading?
<< <i>I think that grading has always been a very subjective and personal thing, and if you like to differentiate between the various VF grades in your own collection, then go right ahead. But if what you are asking is why isn't there more consistency between these four grades in the TPG's, come on. Get real. When has there ever been any consistency in third party grading? >>
Yes, But, it goes beyond the slabbed coin discussion. My comments also refer to raw coins graded anything but consistent in all levels of vf.
Would you consider the grading of circulated coins to be VERY subjective? if so, than we are all in big trouble.
In establishing the grading set I decscribed, I identified a half dime to be VF-20 according to the ANA grading standards, and another to be text book VF-30 according to the same ANA standards. I was then able to identify many other half dimes that fell in between these two grades, some of them presumably deserving the grade of VF-25. I was able to do a similar thing for VF-35, identifying coins that were better than VF-30, but fell short of EF-40. You typically see these coins listed as VF+, EF-, or even worse, About EF.
Of course, this discussion is almost pointless if you try to link these grades with any standard price sheet (CDN, Trends, etc.) as they all list one VF grade - VF-20.
I have always felt that a seller grades his coins twice - once as a standard grade, and again as a price. If a seller writes on his holder that the grade is VF-35, and you do not agree, but if you are willing to pay his asking price, there should be no debate.