I understand the difference between a coin that has been "wiped" and a coin that has been

Scavenger

but, can a "wiped" coin still be slabbed with a decent grade? Will it have the notation- wiped -on the slab or not graded at all?
I know ANACS will grade cleaned coins and note it on the holder, I'm refering to PCGS-NGC.

ziggy29

A coin that's merely wiped -- with no other problems -- can be slabbed if it's still "market acceptable" for the grade and hasn't caused excessive hairlining. A mint state coin will likely take a hit of a couple of points because of it.

AlaBill

If anyone could provide a definitive answer to what amount of "wiping" or "cleaning" is acceptable I would sure like to hear it.

If you read the threads about the TPGs viewpoint of this it looks as if their viewpoint on the amount of wiping or cleaning is completely variable. Variable both by grading company (PCGS, NGS, etc.) and also variable daily with each grading company. Otherwise why would we all send, resend, and continue the cycle until we get a company to certify or upgrade the coin.

I would break most of my coins out of their slabs for my own pleasure but don't do it for I fear the day I return them to the slab for sale might be the day the TPG refuses to certify for excessive wiping or cleaning.

coppercoins

I agree with AlaBill. No amount of explanation could possibly be correct. The services are far too variable on hairlining.

RYK

If anyone could provide a definitive answer to what amount of "wiping" or "cleaning" is acceptable I would sure like to hear it.

This question has been discussed numerous times before. Mark Feld, ex-grader at NGC, gave the most satisfactory answer. If the degree of cleaning nets the grade down to a grade that still makes sense, the TPGs will slab it. Also, it has been my own experience, and affirmed by an expert/dealer, that PCGS is more likely to slab a cleaned coin than NGC.

Darkmane

i'd guess that 90% of coins in slabs have been messed with at some point. question is: was it bad enough for the top 3 to bodybag it? if i dont notice it, and its slabbed, i can still sleep at night knowing its a beautiful and market acceptable coin

geb209

<< <i>If anyone could provide a definitive answer to what amount of "wiping" or "cleaning" is acceptable I would sure like to hear it.

Mark Feld, ex-grader at NGC, gave the most satisfactory answer. If the degree of cleaning nets the grade down to a grade that still makes sense, the TPGs will slab it. >>



Is it just me or is that last statement entirely ambigious? Nets the grade down to a grade that still makes sense? Still makes sense? When does any net graded coin not make sense? That's not a satisfactory answer at all (or not so as quoted or described).

RYK

Still makes sense?

If you have an MS detail coin that has been harshly cleaned and has rim damage such that you would net grade it to Fine, it does not "make sense". If you have an XF coin that has been lightly cleaned such that you would net grade the coin to VF, it "makes sense". If you think about, and think about the cleaned coins you see in holders, it "makes sense".

geb209

<< <i>Still makes sense?

If you have an MS detail coin that has been harshly cleaned and has rim damage such that you would net grade it to Fine, it does not "make sense". If you have an XF coin that has been lightly cleaned such that you would net grade the coin to VF, it "makes sense". If you think about, and think about the cleaned coins you see in holders, it "makes sense". >>



All net graded coins make sense. MS detailed coin that has been harshly cleaned and has rim damage (with a net grade of fine) doesn't make sense? Why not? It certainly doesn't make sense to grade it any higher, or lower for that matter.

MORGANHUNTER2

If you think it has been cleaned, wiped or dipped- send it to Anacs- if the give you a 'net' grade- it has been as stated. if it comes back without commentary as xf/au/ms- then it is what it is.

you need to have the 'juice' to push a cleaned coin thru the big boys- it is a fact of life. If no juice- you get BB'd.

topstuf

If you're sorta thinking it's cleaned but not sure, it's probably "wiped." If still not sure, it's pristine and original. Or conserved, in which case it's moot and all bets are off and it's in a slab so shut up.

RYK

Sorry, I cannot explain it any better. Perhaps Mr. Feld will weigh in on this if you ask him.

AlaBill

"you need to have the 'juice' to push a cleaned coin thru the big boys- it is a fact of life. If no juice- you get BB'd."

If this the way cleaned and harshly wiped coins get in the slabs?

morgannut2

What the heck is "wiped"? You mean accidental rubbing in an old collection's container? You've got to hit a an MS coin, verses a proof, pretty hard with a cloth to cause hairlines don't you?

sinin1

What is the current thought on this?

jdillane

<< <i>Also, it has been my own experience, and affirmed by an expert/dealer, that PCGS is more likely to slab a cleaned coin than NGC. >>



I agree. Probably because NGC will invite a resubmission at NCS to double there fees!

dogwood

Wow! A two year Bump!
Well our Forefathers in this thread pretty much spoke the same constructive arguments of this day.