To "NEG" or not to neg...?
sando69
Posts: 276
Need some help determining if this seller deserves negative feedback, or merely a neutral...
I was the winning bidder for a single card at $86, NO paypal accepted The shipping cost was not specified in the auction, so when i was informed that it would be $6, I emailed seller to ask why the shipping costs for one card were so exorbitant. The following was his reply:
"we actually used to be a dollar cheaper on that card until e-bay and auctionhelper raised their billing. Our actual cost on that card is almost $9.00 when you figure in E-Bay costs, Auctionhelper costs, shipping costs and that does not even include the handling fees. So in essence we are actually selling that card for around $75.00. We used to include the cost in our items, but then nobody would use the automated invoicing from auctionhelper. Due to the high volume of business we have because of e-bay and our web-site, we are forced to use a third-party billing."
The card arrived today, in a bubble mailer (along with a FREE company pen)... total shipping cost was $3.04!
Am anxious to hear how you board members would handle this situation... thank you all for your comments & opinions.
I was the winning bidder for a single card at $86, NO paypal accepted The shipping cost was not specified in the auction, so when i was informed that it would be $6, I emailed seller to ask why the shipping costs for one card were so exorbitant. The following was his reply:
"we actually used to be a dollar cheaper on that card until e-bay and auctionhelper raised their billing. Our actual cost on that card is almost $9.00 when you figure in E-Bay costs, Auctionhelper costs, shipping costs and that does not even include the handling fees. So in essence we are actually selling that card for around $75.00. We used to include the cost in our items, but then nobody would use the automated invoicing from auctionhelper. Due to the high volume of business we have because of e-bay and our web-site, we are forced to use a third-party billing."
The card arrived today, in a bubble mailer (along with a FREE company pen)... total shipping cost was $3.04!
Am anxious to hear how you board members would handle this situation... thank you all for your comments & opinions.
0
Comments
Since the shipping cost was NOt specified in the auction, then you "legally" abide to agree to whatever shipping he quotes you.
Is $6 excessive - IMO, yes.
Does it deserve a neg or neutral, well, that's sticky, but I don't think so.
What would have been better, would be for you to ask how much shipping would have been BEFORE you bid on the item.
No one is outright wrong here, but things could have been done a bit better on each side.
Life's too short to get worked-up over $3.
Good luck!
Matt
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
The fact that it wasn't listed is a bit disappointing tho. Having said that - if you got a good deal on the card and the service was, otherwise, good. The guy deserves a + with a statement - seller doesn't disclose shipping and handling or something like that.
And finally, if I felt strong enought about the guy, I wouldn't bid on his stuff anymore? But, I don't think that fee, if listed, and states that it is shipping and handling is over the top.
Just my thoughts
mike
You have to realise that the shipping fee isn't just for the actual cost for the shipping.. It's the time to package it.. the cost of the tape.. bubble envelope.. the gas used to go to the post office.. whatever..
I always seem to be in the minority on this - but, I find it insulting as a customer to hear that I have to pay for all of these costs of doing business. Guess what - if you are in business, you should be making money. Out of these profits, you pay the bills. Simple as that. Can't deal with the costs? Sell your items for more money, then. Problem is, many Ebay sellers have little or no real world business experience, which is why you get the "my Ebay fees are too high, so I want you to pay for them in the form of higher shipping fees" argument. It's not the three bucks, it's the principle.
Of course, you should simply factor the total cost you are paying, and if you feel it's fair - then that's all that matters, I guess.
Although it is bad that he wasn't upfront with the s/h charge, $6 is not excessive.
I've observed over the years that if an item (usually high dollar) is offered as "free shipping" it doesn't go higher than the same item with $5, $10, or even $20 shipping. I guess simple subtraction eludes many bidders. As far as the "handling fee" goes, aren't you allowed to charge whatever? I know this circumvents both FVF and PayPal fees, but as far as the buyer is concerned, I don't see why they would have a problem.
Brian
....gotta love ebay rage....
"All evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
<< <i>Neg him, write letters to the editor in his hometown, call his phone number in the middle of the night and hang up.
....gotta love ebay rage.... >>
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
<< <i>Negative him?? For a shipping charge of $6.00? I feel that the shipping charge is in line and definitely doesn't warrant a Neg. A negatice should be reserved for a situation where you don't receive the item, the item is not as stated, ETC........ >>
Dude, He was being sarcastic.
matt
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
1955 Bowman Raw complete with 90% Ex-NR or better
Now seeking 1949 Eureka Sportstamps...NM condition
Working on '78 Autographed set now 99.9% complete -
Working on '89 Topps autoed set now complete
<< <i>i think sayheykid54 was referring to the original post >>
If thats the case then I am sorry about that.
Matt
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
<< <i>Neg him, write letters to the editor in his hometown, call his phone number in the middle of the night and hang up.
....gotta love ebay rage.... >>
>> business. Guess what - if you are in business, you should be making money. Out of these profits, you pay the bills. Simple as that.
ctsoxfan, I'm right there with you brother. I guess the next time I pick up a blister box of Topps Heritage at Target, I can expect that the cashier will charge me $5 extra, because after all, they have to pay the cashier, heat and light the store, drive to work, and so on.
And it should be against ebay policy to list an auction without clearly stating your shipping charges.
I charge $5 per ORDER. If you win one card, then MAYBE I make $1 for driving to the post office and waiting 20 minutes to get it sent and filling out mandatory insurance.
I've said it a million times, figure shipping out and figure it into your finalbid. Him making an extra 1.50 on a $80 sale isn't even 2%. It amazes me how so many people worry about a dollar or two when they are spending almost $100.
GG
Answer -- He absolutely has the right to try. He has the right to milk the market for every cent it will pay. And buyers have the right to walk on by. I think eBay should block sellers from concealing their high S&H fees behind the statement "contact seller for details." It's too easy for the seller to ignore those e-mails until the auction is over, and then slap the winner with $6 S&H plus $3 for insurance (required). But again, we don't have to bid if we can't ascertain the fees that will be added later. Sellers employ that tactic because it works.
Too many of us cruise through eBay, sprinkling snipes left and right, not checking the S&H fees unless we win. Sellers take advantage of that, because we let them.
Another major factor is that many sellers try to minimize their eBay and PayPal fees by building as much of their profit as possible into S&H. Some cards, they don't care if it sells for a penny ... as long as the $5 shipping is paid. It seems sleazy, but the system lets them do it.
Personally, I look at the total price. If I want to pay $100 for a card, I don't care if it's $98 plus $2 S&H, or $85 plus $15 S&H.
Just think if you went to your local card shop and had to pay the 6%-8.5% in sales tax (based on your states tax rate)...I think it balances out in the buyers favor in the long run.
Link To Scanned 1952 Topps Cards Set is now 90% Complete Plus Slideshows of the 52 Set
IMO- You sould find out before hand what s/h charges there are. If you don't like the price, don't bid.
For all of you that say "Should I pay ALL the costs of doing business," or "Have any of these people had any business experience," I think you are more green than they are. If they know they can cover some of their costs by charging X and STATING it in the auction, than good for them. If you are willing to purchase the item while seeing what the cost of the s/h than you have no gripe. If you don't see the s/h, ASK!
Everywhere you go in the business world you pay for their cost of running business. The same thing costs different in different neighborhoods, cities, states or countries. When you get a $.69 cheesburger at McDonald's in Blythseville AK and then go to O'Hare airport and pay $1.45 for the exact same burger do you write the BBB and say that you shouldn't have to pay the owners costs at O'Hare?
Blah, blah, blah... Stupid topic. If someone is charging X and people are still purchasing from him, then although disgruntled they ARE WILLING to pay it.
I won't say that every couple of days this comes up because I usually skip over the topic. I just wanted to offer my $.02 and don't think I will read these again. Just find out what you are gonna owe prior to bidding, and if you think its excessive, ask for a discount prior to bidding.
My Auctions
<< <i>Everywhere you go in the business world you pay for their cost of running business. >>
Of course you do - you are saying the same thing I am. But, the cost is built in to your profit margin, not added 100% after the final sale amount is tallied, and not in the form of a fee that is intended to cover your cost to package and ship the goods.
I don't want to go on and on about this, so I won't. But, that Target analogy is spot on - and that's the way I feel when a seller tries to justify padding his pocket by crying the blues about "fees".
OK...
1. If shipping costs are disclosed then there should be no beef...You don't like it, don't buy it. Ethics aside, these costs are known when you submit your bid.
2. There are 2 purchasing costs that the seller can control, starting price(or reserve if the seller is so bold) and shipping costs. So as far as the Target example, it hardly applys in comparison to an AUCTION. At Target all costs are known and thats where they derive their PRICE for an item. They don't do the auction format and you don't see their breakdown of what the $$ you pay goes to
This thread started over $6.00 shipping. Excessive, yes. No doubt. I don't care how much this that and the other is. $6.00 for shipping of an $86 single card is probably a few bucks too much. But that is the buyers responsibility to find out before buying. If you were at Target and you were buy a Heritage pack you know the price stated is the price you will pay at the counter. If you took it to the counter and the guy there said "oh there is a $5.00 handling fee for this," you probably wouldn't buy it. SAME RULES APPLY to E-Bay. You can find out the costs before you buy...
My Auctions
great idea!!
GG
It is your job, as a buyer, to inquire as to the specific terms of an auction if they are not laid out in the auction page.
Now when I bid on a like 15 small lots and the seller said they combined shipping and charged me $40 for shipping and only used $5, that was excessive (I didn't leave any feedback). But a couple of dollars isn't anything to deserve any feedback other than positive if the card was as described.
I do not agree with the policy that allows sellers to conceal their S&H altogether and then dodge e-mails until the auction is over. But the system allows it and my only recourse is to avoid those sellers ... or take the risk.
Actually, I'm surprised eBay does not attempt to regulate S&H, since allowing sellers to shift more of the price to S&H will reduce the eBay fee. I believe NAXCOM does something like that: determines S&H based on the amount of the sale and the seller must abide by it.
<< <i>2. There are 2 purchasing costs that the seller can control, starting price(or reserve if the seller is so bold) and shipping costs. So as far as the Target example, it hardly applys in comparison to an AUCTION. At Target all costs are known and thats where they derive their PRICE for an item. They don't do the auction format and you don't see their breakdown of what the $$ you pay goes to >>
Zef, this is a good point. But, that is the nature of an auction. Sometimes your item sells for less than it should, sometimes it sells for more. That's why you take a shot at selling items in this way. Otherwise, you could list it in an Ebay store, or with a BIN only, and guarantee that you get your price, or no price at all.
<< <i>Actually, I'm surprised eBay does not attempt to regulate S&H, since allowing sellers to shift more of the price to S&H will reduce the eBay fee. I believe NAXCOM does something like that: determines S&H based on the amount of the sale and the seller must abide by it. >>
Don't be suprised to see this at some point in the future.
At what shipping price do you get upset about a single card? $6? $10? $1000? Any experienced seller knows what it costs to ship things in the continental US. $6 for one card is about double. You can give a seller a little cushion if he is off, but $3 extra is clearly too much. As a seller, $3 shipping is the most I will ever charge for one card, and it's pretty much right on.
I personally let stuff like this go because I have too many important things to worry about and I don't usually get upset over little stuff, but I think it's reasonable to leave a neutral and explain that the seller charges extra for his selling fees. Also, send something to ebay letting them know and they will warn the seller.
Lee
<< <i>
At what shipping price do you get upset about a single card? $6? $10? $1000?
Lee >>
If you're going to get "upset" by someone's S/H charges, just don't bid. It isn't that hard.
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
Say there's 2 minutes left in an auction for one card that you really want and you don't have time to email the seller to ask what shipping will be. Would that stop you from bidding? Probably not because you would expect the shipping charge to be reasonable. If the seller emails you saying the final price will be the final bid + shipping + plus an extra $20, are you telling me you don't ask about the $20 extra, and don't get upset when they state some BS reason?
What's even worse here is that the seller explains that he's charging extra for fees that he incurs, a clear violation of rules created and enforced by the marketplace where he sells his merchandise. Say you open an ice cream shop in the mall, and before you rent the space the mall owner tells you you're not allowed to sell chocolate. Under no circumstances are you to sell chocolate in his mall if you want to rent that space. Those are his rules and if you want to be in his mall you have to play by them. You have two choices: either open a shop somewhere else, or don't sell chocolate. This guy is selling chocolate. It's also very shady that the seller has "contact the seller for shipping charges" in the auction listing, then adds on extra fees once the auction is completed. Why not just put the $6 in the listing? Because it's unreasonable to the point where it costs him money and he knows it.
Lee
Well then, don't expect that. I never do. Also, I've learned through the years that it's NEVER an oversight when someone doesn't put the shippng charges in the auction. If it isn't listed it's because they want to gouge you.
If you find this pratice unethical the best thing to do is to simply never bid on auctions that don't have the shipping listed. We're talking baseball cards, folks, not a new kidney-- if you don't get that '65 common or whatever it's not going to kill you. If you do bid understand that you're opening yourself up to getting screwed on shipping.
Also, the $100 example is a little ad hoc. We're talking about $6-- a scam, to be sure, but still in the range of what's acceptable (although it's certainly on the high side). At $100 you obviously tell the guy to get bit and don't pay.
But the seller was not asking $100 for S/H. The S/H was $6, which is quite reasonable in my opinion. If you find me a ebayer who charges $100 to send a single baseball card, please point him out for us.
In this case, the actual cost of shipping was $3.04. For me to ship a single card in a bubble mailer with a pen, the postage will come to around $1.00? I'd like to hear the rest of the story. How did the seller mail the card? What additional service was purchased at the PO to drive the price over $3.00? Was it packaged securely? Was the package sent out in a timely manner?
Judging from his initial post, it sounds to me the bidder was more ticked off by the fact that he didn't notice the seller didn't accept paypal until after the auction ended.
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
This buyer obviously does care because he started this thread, and I'm telling him if he's pissed, he has every right to take action.
Again, this seller is selling his cards on ebay. He is charging extra money that ebay says he's not allowed to. How is this not wrong?
Lee
This buyer is entitled to his opinion. I'm entitled to mine and I'm telling him to suck it up. Being charged $6 for shipping and handling is not the end of world.
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
Lee
Agreed. Yes, it sucks-- no, it's not a disaster. There are times when it seems like these boards have been reduced to 30 guys griping about Ebay- and this is one of those times.