How come...

Darkhorse

with all our advanced technology and superior technical skill we are apparently unable to produce a likeness on a coin or medal comparable to the ones of the 19th century? How come with so many people in the world there apparently isn't any talent around to top the artistry of coins and medals in the early 20th century?

Sure there are some exceptions but I grow increasingly frustrated at the lack of new items being produced that don't even try to attain any degree of artistic quality.

historygeek

See this thread please: Consumerism/Capitalism and the degredation of coinage

Comments by Condor101: I can't argue against any of your points Sylvestius because I have been making the same arguments myself for years. I can add one more reason though for the deterioration of the relief and engraving on the coins. It has to do with the shear number of coins needed and the sped at which they are struck. Back in the 1700's, and earlier, with the screwpress they could strike 20 to 40 coins per minute, with the steampress it rose to as much as 120 coins per minute. Todays high speed presses do 750 coins per minute. Now the cold flow rate of the coinage metal has a maximum physical limit. Higher pressure can raise that rate slightly but you eventually reach a point where increse in speed or pressure actually reverses the flow rate. As coining speed increased the metal has less and less time to fill the die and eventually it just can't move fast enough to fill the die and details are not struck up. To counter that the relief of the design has to be lowered so the metal doesn't have to move as far. At todays 750 coins per minute the coins are coming out of the press faster than bullets come out of a machinegun. As over 12 coins per second the metal just can't fill a design fast enough unless the relief is almost nil. (The press has to accomplish at least 6 operations during that .08 seconds it takes to produce a coin and most if not all of them take longer than the sactual striking step.)

Comments by Cladking: Production at most mints is staggering in modern times. The US mint especially can make more
one cent coins every day (~60 million) than all the coins it used to make in the typical year back
in the mid 1800's. Coupled with the fact that collectors and citizens both didn't give current coin-
age a second though until just a few years ago it meant that the mint had no incentive to be con-
cerned with quality or artistic expression, just the cost. As die steel and presses were improved
over the years they used these improvements to strike coins faster and cheaper rather than bet-
ter or better quality. Now that people are looking at coins again they have been making some im-
provements in quality and making the first moves toward more modern designs and themes on the
coinage. Dramatic improvement in relief will require a sea change at this point simply because they
lack the capacity to do it and this will be doubly true if production continues increasing to support
a recovering economy.

Cu/ ni and cu/ ni clad are tough to coin and the mint has worked out a lot of kinks over the years
to turn these out at the low cost that they do. While the quality isn't always the best they do come
out in truck loads and most simply are made for commerce. So long as they serve this purpose, the
people aren't likely to complain very loudly even if collectors do. Ironically there are so many people
collecting now that they hear complaints far more often than they did back in the days that quality was
sincerely horrendous.

trozau

One contributing factor is that current times demand productivity more than artistry. Produce more at a shorter time is the norm today without much regard for artistry. Another would be that the modern designers are mass trained/taught cooky-cutter style in universities and colleges unlike in the earlier times when training was a one-on-one apprenticeship that took many years under a master (if you were deemed worthy to train). Benedetto Pistrucci insisted in using only his renditions of the subject and would not compromise by copying another artist's. Also, he worked 33 years on and off to complete his Waterloo Commemorative medal.

Darkhorse

But it's not just the circulation strikes, it's the NCLT as wel. Surely they could do something more spectacular.

For instance there's this new Canadian $300 gold piece commemorating the old 25¢ bill. What a ridiculous commemoration, it's poorly executed as well.

spoon

For a true explanation of why current coin designs are crap you must look at the Lightside: go back over some of the inane battles that were fought in legislatures and elsewhere over the state quarter designs. Most of your NCLT these days is sponsored by a group (and in America approved by Congress) and the group likely knows jack about coining stuff so they nod their heads when the cheapskates at the mint say "this is what we can do" and it sucks. blah blah blah

the point is, it's not only technology and efficiency.. those are the excuses for not changing.. the reason for not changing is the political difficulty involved.. political correctness (you'd never have an idealized Liberty female figure these days), political interests, etc, etc, ad nauseam

spoon

<< <i>For instance there's this new Canadian $300 gold piece commemorating the old 25¢ bill. What a ridiculous commemoration, it's poorly executed as well. >>

Another reason these childlike stickfigure designs keep coming out is because there are unquestioning "collectors" who buy on impulse anything to come out the mint.