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Mercury Dime grading thread -- post your grades here when you get'em! -- Update 11/20
mercurydimeguy
Posts: 4,625 ✭✭✭✭
I thought I'd start a thread for Merc collectors to post their grading submissions. I almost always have Mercs in grading and thought that it would be valuable to other collectors to see how Merc grading is going if they are considering submitting coins for grading or regrading. If you get Merc grades, post them here and any comments/thoughts around the submission.
Here's the first one. In today, 6/1/05:
1 60186863 1929-D 10C USA MS66FB
Bought this coin in a PCGS 65FB holder...older blue holder. Thought it looked like a 66FB all day long. Sent in for regrading last month, and it came back a 65FB. Re-looked, scratched my head and still said -- it looks like a 66FB all day long. Took a deep breath -- snip, crack, pop and the coin was free. Sent it in raw under the $50 / 7 day express service -- voila!! Grade just in, as you can see, 66fB
Not drawing any conclusions about this, but I'm thinking of really trusting my grading ability more and more -- meaning, not sending in coins for regrading or even worst, cross-over, and simply sending in all submissions raw.
BTW -- I'm jazzed up!! That's a nice score for me
Here's the first one. In today, 6/1/05:
1 60186863 1929-D 10C USA MS66FB
Bought this coin in a PCGS 65FB holder...older blue holder. Thought it looked like a 66FB all day long. Sent in for regrading last month, and it came back a 65FB. Re-looked, scratched my head and still said -- it looks like a 66FB all day long. Took a deep breath -- snip, crack, pop and the coin was free. Sent it in raw under the $50 / 7 day express service -- voila!! Grade just in, as you can see, 66fB
Not drawing any conclusions about this, but I'm thinking of really trusting my grading ability more and more -- meaning, not sending in coins for regrading or even worst, cross-over, and simply sending in all submissions raw.
BTW -- I'm jazzed up!! That's a nice score for me
0
Comments
POB 854
Temecula CA 92593
310-541-7222 office
310-710-2869 cell
www.LSRarecoins.com
Larry@LSRarecoins.com
PCGS Las Vegas June 24-26
Baltimore July 14-17
Chicago August 11-15
Yellowjacket
<< <i>I crossed a 1935-D NGC 66FB to a PCGS holder about six months ago. Does that count? >>
Any time you can cross NGC to PCGS it definitely counts
60186864 1942/1 10C USA AU50 (see pic below)
Coin was in an Anacs AU55 holder (the last coin I needed to finish the Varieties set), and it was sent in for a cross with a min grade of AU50, and so no surprise that they graded it AU50. After looking at over 1,000 dimes in the last few days, I can comfortably say that this is probably one of the best coins in an AU50 holder
60186862 1941-D 10C USA DNC (from NGC)...still haven't crossed 1 NGC coin in to PCGS this year, and only 1 ever in my life.
Both of these grading results just amplify my point below. For me, no more sending in coins for cross. If I wouldn't buy the coin raw at the grade, I shouldn't buy it in another slab and hope to cross it. Therefore, if I would buy it raw at the grade, it will become raw when I submit it
More grades to come next week.
Another grade just in:
60186861 1935-S 10C USA MS67
Good news/bad news here, so I guess I'm even Stephen...it went MS67 but it no banded. This one will get the round robin...to see if anyone needs it in no bands and if not I think I'll take a couple of more pokes at regrades. If I send it in a couple times, one time it will come back with FB...because the bands are there, but (if anyone owns a 35-S in FB you know what I'm talking about) the bands are not bread loaves. The 35-S, and 37-S and 39-S for that matter, typically have weak bands. My 39-S is a very nice coin but if I cracked it out it would never find its way back in to an FB holder, if you know what I mean
...hopefully more to come later this week
Al
Grade this 1942/1: TPG could be NGC or PCGS.... Good luck.
Al
If the coin is exactly as it looks in the pictures, and I was the grader at PCGS, you'd hate me but I'd BB the coin. Here's what bothers me -- it looks as though the coin was improperly cleaned (not harshly, though) at some point, then toned over and then dipped or MS70'd again.
The other piece that's interesting is the date -- the 1 on the P typically goes further down and there's typically some doubling in the 4 rather than being flat...but that could just be attributed to the weak strike...and in the aggregate this also bothers me about the coin. I personally haven't seen that many weak strike 42/1-P's. They're usually pretty hammered out. There's typically not a lot of die wear/polish primarily because only one run was struck from the overdate die prior to them realizing the problem...so there would be no die polish, die striations, etc., on the coin because they realized during the first run that there was a problem...so this would not be a die that would get reconditioned after striking XXXX number of coins.
If in hand it looks different, and the coin's surfaces look fine, etc., then below is my critical grading assessment:
I can't tell from the picture if it is FB or NB, but in hand it would be easy enough to tell. As far as the grade goes, this coin looks like a "liner" between 63 and 64. Personally, I would have a hard time grading it 64 because of (among other reasons) the fadeaway weak strike. PCGS would likely grade this coin a 63 (FB or NB, depends on what the bands look like) while NGC would probably go 64. Also, hard to tell from the picture but there is something about the weakness in the hair by the ear, etc. It's probably fine, but if there's break in luster there the coin goes AU at PCGS.
All that said, I wouldn't be surprised if the coin was in a 65FB PCGS holder. I looked at 1,000's of fimes at Long Beach and was simply stunned at the kind of grading incosistencies I saw. Sometimes a full 2-3 points...I saw 67's that today wouldn't make it in to 5 holders and saw 3's that are lock 5's if not 6's...I bought those
Let me know how it turns out...or if it is already graded what the grade is and who is the company that graded it.
<< <i>Mike and gang:
Grade this 1942/1: TPG could be NGC or PCGS.... Good luck.
From the picture AU58 and in a NGC holder.
Ken
You're right though, on one point. Unlike just about most coins, Mercs ARE almost impossible to grade from pictures. A 3% tilt, the coin is AU58; a 6% tilt and the coin is MS65; the wrong lighting and the coin is AT; too much lighting and nicks/hits are made invisible. I think it has something to do with the size and relief of the coin, which makes it nearly impossible to grade from pics. If you look at the pics of my set...3's through 7's, it is almost impossible to tell much difference. Yet, in hand, there are noticeable/visble differences.
It is one of these realities -- Mercs don't look the same in Pics as they do in hand -- that us Merc collectors have learned to deal with. A number of non in-person Merc sales/purchases are often done on approval because of this.
Personally speaking, though, I couldn't buy this coin in a 65FB PCGS holder...I'd pass on it. But again, that's just my 2 cents
On the bright side:
One upgrade to report -- albeit a big one
I sent in my 1916-D AU55 coin for designation review as it clearly has Full Bands (and high end for the grade, at that), and HRH came through!!! Just got the coin in the mail today and looking at the cert is kind of neat AU55FB
Nice bump and now I have a legitimate shot at finishing the set in 100% FB
On the darker side:
I think I'm going to get a spanking (0 for 6) on a regrade order. Although I sent in 6 coins, there are only 2 that I think should be upgraded...the other 4 were setup coins (ok...let's not debate the merit of setup coins, it's just that I've had the most success in having coins upgraded to their rightful holders when submitting for regrade this way). My coins have been in Verification 2 for 5 days now...that's either a bad sign or a good sign. Typically, they stay in V2 for 1-2 days max. So there either must have been an upgrade and the finalizer is killing the upgrade (back to original grade), or, if I'm REALLY lucky, he's looking at the coin(s) to see if he agrees with the upgraded grade - probably not as all the coins in question are keys/semi-keys. I'll post an update on this submission once grades post...hopefully sometime soon.
yipee for the FB designation on your 16-D - that must be a true rush
Marc
Thanks, Marc. Given the fact (which by this time we Merc guys know all to well) that the current Merc grading climate is a bit on the unfriendly side, this was truly a BIG score...but in all honesty it only reiterates that if a coin is truly/no-doubt all there, it will be so graded/designated accordingly.
In the current Merc grading environment, liner coins are not really candidates for much. The coin, especially a key-date, needs to be no-doubt, agreed by all (graders) who review it -- all there.
Well, the results posted -- it went 50/50 -- 1 out of the 2 upgraded, so I can't complain:
1 22010581 1916 10C USA MS67FB --
2 22010582 1921 10C USA MS65FB
3 22010583 1937-S 10C USA MS66FB
4 22010584 1920-D 10C USA MS64FB -- and I was hoping for his one
5 22010585 1928 10C USA MS65FB
6 22010586 1925 10C USA MS65FB
1 60197545 1926-S 10C USA DNC
2 60197546 1941-D 10C USA DNC
BTW -- anyone ever cross a tough key date Merc and/or super high-end Merc at grade from NGC?
I'm 1 for about 9 (I crossed an NGC 37-D 67FB about 2 years ago). Conversely, I'm at about 6 for 9 once I crack the same coin....hhhmmmm
Is it harder to grade the coin in an NGC slab?
but have not tried any this year.
Tim
Latest grading batch:
I made 3 REALLY nice coins! Most turned out as expected with the only surprise on the downside being the 16-S. This coin is going back for re-grading, in fact I'll post grades when it comes back the second time. I'll also give the 25-P a quick rinse to see if I can salvage it...a nice, really struck up coin that I thought was AT but decided to pay for a PCGS opinion (although I showed it to 1/2 dozen dealers in L.B. and everyone thought it was OK).
1 60200797 1925 10C USA Artificial Color (I thought it was AT)
2 60200801 1937 10C USA MS65FB
3 60200802 1945-S 10C USA MS66FB (nice)
4 60200803 1945-S 10C USA MS66FB (nice) ... wish oneof these made 67FB ... a surprisingly tough coin to get into a 67FB holder
5 60200804 1931-S 10C USA MS64FB (Yes!!!)
6 60200805 1916-S 10C Mercury USA AU58
7 60200806 1939-S 10C USA Damage (I thought it was either tooled or FB...leaning towards tooled but was willing to pay for PCGS's opinion)
8 60200807 1939-S 10C USA MS66FB (Yes!!!)
9 60200808 1936-D 10C USA MS65FB (Yes!!!)
Overall, other than PCGS simply refusing to cross any NGC Mercs these days (I know this is hard to believe, but it is what it is), PCGS raw Merc grading is really getting better. I will crack out all my NGC coins from now on, which coins I think are ALL THERE, and just send them in raw because the cross-grading concept for Mercs is like fool's gold.
Overall, grading has definitely picked up because I've had as many Mercs as non-Mercs graded.
BTW...here are some more (non-Merc) coins that posted grades:
1 60200795 1882-S $5 USA MS63 (raw -- yes!!)
2 60200796 1838 H10C No Drapery USA MS65 (NGC cracked out MS64 -- YES!!!)
6 60200800 1927 $20 USA MS64 (NGC cracked out MS63 - YES!!)
Yellowjacket
More Merc grades posted today -- 1 for 4 on upgrades. VERY happy with the 1 that got upgraded!
1 22027942 1920-D 10C USA MS64FB
2* 22027943 1918-D 10C USA MS64FB --
3 22027945 1924-D 10C USA MS66FB
4 22027946 1924-S 10C USA MS64FB
2* This coin was in an NTC 64FB holder. I liked the coin as a 64FB and bought it for a steal in an NTC holder -- $500 (believe it or not). Crossed at min grade 62FB. Believed it to be a much better. Sent in 2nd time -- went 63FB. Happier, but believed it to be better. Sent in 3rd time -- 63FB. I almost gave up...re-grouped and said to myself that this coin will live at PCGS and in the postal system until I either get it in to a 64FB holder or I sell it, which ever came first. Sent in a 4th time, and finally 64FB -- nice! This coin is now in it's coffin -- the final resting place -- and it will no longer have to travel to PCGS and back. Although I might take a few more shots to see if I can get it in to a 65FB holder -- just kidding
tim
I hope they upgrade your dime set also
All coins mercury dimes.
Cracked and/or raw. (economy submission)
1920 62fb cracked from nnc 65fb, I thought 63fb+.
1923-s 62 could have gone 58, awesome colors, maybe net graded. winner!
1924-d BB cleaning - had my suspicions
1924-s AU50
1925 62
1928-s AU50 Macro-s
1929 64fb
1929-s 62
1931 BB cleaning - big disappointment - will resubmit
1938-d 65fb I thought 64fb!
1939 64 I thought shot at FB
1943 66fb Cracked from 64fb rattler! My first 2 step upgrade.
1944-s 66fb Cracked from 65fb OGH!
Cross Grades recieved 7/27 (my 8 free membership submissions)
1916-d AG3 Crossed from ANACS AG3
1916-d DNC Cleaned - I thought it might not cross - Green PCI G4
1916-d G6 Crossed from NGC G6
1919-d DNC Sticker on back says "AT" - gold PCI MS64fb - PCGS put a deep scratch across the front of this holder!!!!!!!!!
1919-s DNC Pcgs gave no reason, ANACS 62fb, I tried to cross it at 62fb.
1920 MS65FB Crossed from NGC 65FB.
1920-d MS63 Crossed from ANACS 63 - had shot at FB
1920-s DNC sticker on back says "AT" - is anacs ms62fb.
Larry
did you sit in the lobby of the post office too?
Larry/Duner you look familiar
Marc
<< <i>what grading level did you use
tim >>
Tim, I've found out through many trials and tribulations that my best results come from the $30 level. Have I had good results at $50 level? Yes...but bad ones also...more bad than good (on the same coins). The $100 level paid off only 1 time...so won't do that again. The $18 service is just too hit/miss. The graders are just probably used to grading bulk at this level (understandably so), and not always coins that have a strike designation (FB), so I just don't submit Mercs at this level (alhtough I will submit other coins, and have had success).
Duner, you're a man after my own heart...a gluten for punishment
1919-s BB Cleaned, Last time this coin was AU58. (PCGS fall 2005) I'll try again. Its FB and looks MS.
1920-s MS62FB Yeah! Bought raw, BB for environmental damage by PCGS in 2004, I treated with acetone, Got MS62FB from ANACS, Tryed to cross - got DNC for AT. Cracked out and dipped the coin. Got MS62FB!
1920 MS65FB - cracked from MS65FB OGH holder bought in 1997 at heritage. Had shot at 66FB.
1923 MS66FB - bought raw, graded in collector club submission 2003 at MS65FB. Nice upgrade.
1931-s MS63 - bought raw, graded in collector club submission 2003 at MS63. Had shot at 64 and FB.
1934-d MS65FB - cracked from OGH 65FB, no suprise.
1945 micro-s MS65FB - bought raw, graded in collector club submission 2003 at MS64FB. Nice upgrade!
Overall a good submission.
Note that none of the other coins were dipped except the 1920-s.
The two OGH went 0/2 in upgrade.
The 3 newer blue holders went 2/3 in upgrade.
Larry
The two OGH went 0/2 in upgrade.
The 3 newer blue holders went 2/3 in upgrade.
...thanks for that bit...it is as I suspected...
BTW -- Where's the 45-S in 67FB??
Larry
POB 854
Temecula CA 92593
310-541-7222 office
310-710-2869 cell
www.LSRarecoins.com
Larry@LSRarecoins.com
PCGS Las Vegas June 24-26
Baltimore July 14-17
Chicago August 11-15
I have an 1918-S merc dime at PCGSS now
Check it out! (The time, man, the time!)
Fastest express ever!
LINE # CERT # COIN DATE DENOMINATION VARIETY COUNTRY GRADE
1 22056197 1916-D 10C USA G06
Date Received: 08/25/2005
Date Shipped: 08/30/2005
Edited for history: Was in older, green, PCI label @ VF20. Really thought it would stay the same. Happy with it, anyway.
1 22039853 1919 10C USA MS63FB
2 22039854 1941-D 10C USA DNC
3 22039855 1937-S 10C USA DNC (heartbreaker)
4 22039856 1945-S 10C USA DNC
5 22039857 1891-S 25C USA DNC (double heartbreaker...cherry picked at SF ANA)
The 1937-s and the 1891-S quarter are getting cracked out and sent in raw the day I get the home.
This submission(3214521) was done today. Can you tell me what the Mercs are worth? They all have nice colors from an album.
Thanks.
Very nice, Seth
PM me and I'll give you my thoughts...and make you an offer on the 35-D and S 25C
Some more grades...not that I need any of these dimes (other than the Barber for my type set) but I'm trying to build some statistical data around grading so I'm trying to rationalize my $$ outlay in grading fees as "research"
Some commentary also provided:
1916-S 10C Mercury MS63FB -- raw, cracked PCGS AU58...if you look further below they first graded it AU58
1917-S 10C USA MS63FB -- cracked out NGC MS62 no bands...no more crossgrading for this Merc guy
1920-D 10C USA MS62FB -- cracked out NGC MS62FB...no more crossgrading for this Merc guy
1943-S 10C USA MS63FB -- MONSTER color...ex PCGS 64 no bands
1935-S 10C USA MS64FB -- ex NGC MS65 no bands -- should've 65FB...will be going back to PCGS
1935-P 10C USA MS66FB -- nice
1945-S 10C USA MS65FB -- ex raw, ex PCGS MS66FB, cracked out ex PCGS MS66FB again, now it's MS65FB and not 67FB
1945-P 10C USA MS63 -- what does a Merc guy have to do to make a 45-P in FB??
1919-S 10C USA MS64 -- cracked out NGC MS63 no bands...this coin is close enough for FB to take a shot at a second designation review...no more crossgrading for this Merc guy
1929-D 10C USA MS65FB -- cracked out NGC 65FB
1944-D 10C USA MS66FB -- cracked out PCGS 67FB...this coin should be a 68FB...this one is going back to PCGS
1916-P 10C Barber MS63 -- cracked out PCGS MS61
Well, no ego -- no shame, it is what it is...so I hope you find this interesting
what service level was that last submission?
Is the order your coins listed, the same order on the sub. form?
Larry
Duner,
Yes, I tried to slot the coins in so there is some variance between them. I think I shouldn't have sent the high grade stuff in this low/mid grade order because it got hammered. The best results I've gotten on high grade stuff is when it's all grouped together. I'm working on a high grade order that I should be able to submit in the next 2 weeks, so I'll crack out the 44-D and the 45-S and submit them raw again on that high grade order.
On the 45-P, I have a real nice microscope that goes from a mere 10x to 40x. I'm going to take pictures of the 45-P bands to show them that they are indeed full, and INDEED split, and send the pictures in with the coin for a designation review.
My fear is that I really now know how they "actually" grade and have a much better understanding/appreciation of why certain NB coins go FB / why certain FB coins get no banded, etc. I wil have a group of 5 coins that are in no bands holders that are FB all the way, and I'm going to send in one order for designation review with blow up pictures and ask them to actually use their loupe to grade a Merc with FB
2 22085437 1939-S 10C USA MS64
I think the have an asteric by my name.
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay