A Little Indulgence For Franklin Fans - The Newest MS66FBL PL

FC57Coins

As many of you have seen me post this special Franklin that I happen to have, the one thing missing about it was the designation that it was acknowledged as something special. There are several stories circulating about how the 1949S Franklin Half came to have prooflike specimens. One story had it that mint director Nellie Tayloe Ross requested special strikings of the 1949S Franklin Halves to present as a gift, at a San Francisco gala celebrating the start of production of this, her pet coin, at that mint. Another story has it that mint employees, trying to get ready for proof coinage production the following year, worked on some dies to see if they could get the coins to come out with the look they were seeking for proof coins, which hadn't been minted since 1942. Finally the last story I've heard is that an over zealous mint employee just ground the living daylights out of the die used to make these coins. Whichever story you chose to believe, the fact of the matter is that the coin does stand out as something different than the rest of the Franklins that I have ever run across, and after 3 tries, the powers that be, have agreed, and designated the coin as a PL. This is the second MS66FBL PL that has been so designated by NGC, so it's kinda neat being it's keeper for a little while. Enjoy

WWW

Wow, Frank! That's pretty cool.

emzee

JrGMan2004

Bubblehead

That is one beautiful Franklin!

Thanks for showing him to us, Frank!

braddick

I've never even heard of such a coin in 25 years of collecting.
Nice! Great story and a terrific coin!

jdimmick

Frank,


I am not a big Franklin fan, but that is a neat coin and story to go with it. Congrats on getting the PL designation.

JRocco

3 point shot there Frank- Congrats

BowTieCoins2

coinguy1

Not bad for a "Frankie", Frank. Congrats on obtaining the PL designation.

mgoodm3

Don't see a lot of PL's in the non-Morgan ranks.

FC57Coins

Thanks - It's neat to see the reaction of Franklin collectors who see the coin for the first time - At first they assume it's an early proof - possibly impaired, then they turn it over and see the "S" mint and something doesn't click right, they turn it over again and see the date isn't right - that's when you get the "hey - what the heck is this?"

Ronyahski

Frank - Congrats on the grade. I know of 2 others that exist, so as you said, there's some story behind these coins. It would be so interesting to get to the bottom of it.

Shamika

Congratulations! I wish I could see this thing in person.

LucyBop

A MOST EXCELLENT THREAD!!!!!

bushmaster8

Way to hang in there Frank!

Cameonut

What a wonderful coin! Thanks for letting us know these coins even exist!

Thanks for posting it.

MrKelso

Excellent

RYK

Nice coin and nice story.

CoinAddict

Outstanding news. I am very glad to hear that it has been properly designated. Could you please get some Obverse and Reverse pics like the one shown in the holder pic. It looks to really show off the cameo contrast.

robertpr

Frank, you suck. Many here will never realize the utter significance of that coin. My heart nearly stopped when I saw it. Congrats on the designation and if you ever want to sell it, don't see me because I probably can't afford it.

oldcameoproofsguy

I used to own this coin and it is indeed special!

I am glad that Frank is the current owner because I know how much he can really appeciate how difficult it is to find such a piece. It is very difficult to find PL examples of the 49-S in MS65 let alone MS66FBL!

Good work on getting the designation Frank!

mrearlygold

pf70collector

Great coin. Never knew about this.

fivecents

Congratulations!! That is truely a special coin.

coinfreak499

WOW! Great coin.
Cool

Heywood

Nice coin, and cool picts, I'd love to see it in person



Now are you going to try and cross it?

XpipedreamR

AWESOME giveaway! Thanks!!!

MadMonk

That's great news Frank. That coin is really something special, PL and FBL to boot. Congrats!

foodude

Frank showed me this coin about 18 months ago ... it is a very special coin

bushmaster8

I remember sometime back in the early 1980's when a dealer (I think his name was Harold Kritzman, or

something like that) paid what was at the time a record price for a Franklin. It was a 1949-S PL, and I

think it traded at $2500 (again, my memory is a bit vague on this, so don't hold me to it!)

FC57Coins

That sounds about right for back then.

SanctionII

I have looked at Frank's threads/posts on this coin in particular and PL Franklins in general with interest. Congrats on the PL designation. My interest in the topic stems from a possible PL Franklin that I have. It is a 1959P and it is my understanding that PL Frankies for 1959P are reported to exist. It would be great to compare Frank's 1949 with my 1959 and see if mine looks even remotely like his.

oldcameoproofsguy

This coin was crossed to NGC. It used to be in a PCGS MS66FBL holder.

FC57Coins

<< <i>I have looked at Frank's threads/posts on this coin in particular and PL Franklins in general with interest. Congrats on the PL designation. My interest in the topic stems from a possible PL Franklin that I have. It is a 1959P and it is my understanding that PL Frankies for 1959P are reported to exist. It would be great to compare Frank's 1949 with my 1959 and see if mine looks even remotely like his. >>




Sanction - The 1959P is the only other date that NGC has recognized as having PL surfaces - they've graded 1 coin with that designation. For the 1949S, there are an estimated 20-200 examples, again, depending on who's story you listen to. As for the 1959P, I don't believe I've ever heard any kind of pop estimate on it. Suposedly there are some 1954P's and some 1963D's out there that would fall into the PL category also, though none have been designated as such.


And to add: That is correct - I actually did a switch to NGC because they recognized the PL designations on these coins.

SanctionII

FC57Coins, Thanks for the info on NGC giving a PL designation to a 1959P. My 1959P looks very different from your typical MS Franklin. One thing that is quite interesting is the fact that the eagle on the coin looks sharp and fully struck, just like the eagles you see on1948-49 MS Frankies and those you see on some of the proof Frankies (i.e 1956 Type 11 and 1960-1963).

FC57Coins

Sanction - there are reworked dies for 1959 Franklins depicting type I, II, and III eagles which are the weak, medium strength, and strong eagles. The strong eagles are rare.

foodude

The 1959P is the only other date that NGC has recognized as having PL surfaces - they've graded 1 coin with that designation.

I had a raw '59 with PL features that I sent to NGC about 2 years ago to get a PL designation- it came back MS64; not even a star

SanctionII

FC57Coins, I have not heard of 3 different types of eagles for 1959P Frankies. One can learn quite alot of information on these boards. I have not looked at the coin in some time, however in the past I looked at it and compared the eagle to the eagles on the other 34 coins in my MS Frankie set. I remember that 2 or 3 of the early Franklin coins had nicely struck eagles. Except for the 1959P most if not all of the other coins had eagles that were weakly struck. The 1959P has an eagle that is hammered. It is so much better than the rest that it just jumps out at you.

The surface of the coin looks different that those of the other MS Franklins in my set. It has a granular surface, however the texture is much more even and smooth that the granular texture of surfaces of the other coins in my set. When you tilt the coin at times you can see the light relected in a way similar to brilliant proofs. The coin from certain angles has "mirror like" surfaces. Looking at the coin in its black Capital holder next to its regular MS siblings, you can easily tell that it looks different from all of the others.

Is there anything else that you can tell me in the way of diognostics for the 1959P Franklin that can be used to determine if it is PL. Thanks again, SanctionII.

FC57Coins

The biggest tell tale sign that you are going to find is the edges of the coin. If the edges are squared, then obviously you would have a proof coin. If the coin does not have squared off edges, then I would look for minute raised die polish marks on the fields. With 1959 being the last date where the original master hub was used, the likelyhood is that even on the best struck coins, you would tend to have some mushyness on the main features which attest to a fully struck coin. Look at how well defined the bell lines are, look at the Pass and Stow, and look at the three wisps of hair by Franklin's ear and see how defined these are. If they're kinda mushy, but you still have lots of reflectivity (and no cartwheel effect) then you may very well have something. A picture would be very helpful.

SanctionII

FC57Coins, thanks, I will keep your diagostics in mind and look at the coin again tonight. I will give an update tomorrow. Who knows, maybe I have something special. If so, not bad for simply buying an MS Frankie set in a Capital holder 6+ years ago for much, much less than what the sell for today.

TUMUSS

VERY COOL

SanctionII

FC57Coins, I looked at my 1959P Frankie last night, in hnad, under good lighting through a 10X and 20X loupe. The reeded edges are not square like those on proof coins. The edge looks the same as the edges on the other MS Frankies I have. There are no die polishing lines evident on the obverse and reverse fields. The overall strike is mushy, including the three strands of hair, the bell lines and "Pass And Stow". However, the eagle blows me away with how strong and sharp it is. It far exceeds the strength, sharpness and detail of the eagle on the other 34 coins in my set. It looks like the eagles on the proofs made in the 1960's. It also has a look that differs dramtically from the other coins and tends toward a mirrored look.

I put the coin away for a while and then months later pull it out and again wonder if it would be designated a prooflike Franklin. Unfortunately, it has quite a few marks in the fields and on the devices. I would guess that MS63 would be the best grade it could hope to receive.

Thanks again for your input. SanctionII.

hughesm1

I'd love to see a side by side comparison of the type I, II, and III eagles. I can imagine what the TI looks like...lack of details and the TIII with razor sharp detail (correct me if I'm wrong,) but haven't the foggiest what improvements were made resulting in the TII.

BTW Frank...most excellent Frankie

FC57Coins

Hopefully the resident expert on this - FLYKITE - will see this thread and will be able to provide further information.

toners

Frank,
Unique Franklin, Missed you at the Whitman Show in Atlanta this past weekend.
Allen

Longacre

Is that a typical strike for that coin? Just curious.

FC57Coins

No - this is a very A-typical coin - only between 20-200 are thought to exist - No one knows the exact circumstances under which they were minted - if you refer to the introductory post it gives you some of the "theories". It'd be really nice to find out what the story was with these coins!

bushmaster8

Iwas just looking at a semi-prooflike 1959 at Fox Valley Coins in Naperville IL about an hour ago. NGC holder, no PL designation, but this one had extensive die polish.

bushmaster8

I see R&I Coins is offering a 49-S NGC65 FBL PL in his retail list for $3500.

He correctly states that it is the only MS65, but fails to mention that there are 2 MS66 FBL PL's.

DenverDave

In Memory of Frank...