Question Regarding Bust Half Rarity Ratings???

stman

As many of us know the BHNC updated the estimated rarity ratings in August 2004 Here for pre-turb and Here for Capped Bust halves.

So my question is.... Is the updated version what is most used in the industry? I assume so and more-so for collectors.
Yet I still see retail dealers and major auction houses still going by the Overton book (which doesn't surprise me.)

So which is it? I know I go by the updated BHNC version and I was going to pull the trigger on a coin that WAS an R-5.
Yet it is now an R-4. Premiums start getting up there once hitting R-5 so it can make a difference IMO. And the description from a well
known and respected dealer is going by Overton calling it an R-5. Thanks!!

mozin

Truth is the current BHNC rarity ratings are correct so forget all the earlier data. Dealers will work the rarity ratings any way than can to make a buck. The few top specialists in Bust Halves will certainly go by the current BHNC rarities. Mind you, I said "the few" because that is all there are that I would call Bust Half specialists. Sheridan Downey is the top man in the Bust Half business and he gets all my extra Bust Halves for his auctions.

Let me assure you that the newest BHNC ratings were arrived at by a concerted effort involving approximately 100 collectors very serious about collecting ALL the varieties of Bust Halves. This group has decided to share their research with the public so make use of it.

stman

Thanks Mozin. You confirmed basically what I felt. And I'm sure Nysoto, Okbustchaser, and a few others whom
I consider specialists will confirm this as well. I did contact said dealer in my original post and mentioned this with a link
to the updated information.
As I have no doubt there was a premium built in for the R-5 they were listing that is now an R-4. I still would like the coin though.
I'll find out Tuesday what they have to say, and if price will be affected by this.

TomB

The coin is what it is and it doesn't matter what someone else calls it. So, if you have the most current data, as all of us do who follow this series closely, then you have the knowledge to determine what the coin is really worth regardless of hype, misinformation or laziness.

gemtone65

Three questions:

1. Are these rarity ratings the same as those used for patterns?

2. Which of the 1811 varieties is the 1811/10, known as the 18.11 punctuated date?

3. What grades do the rarity measures reflect?

mozin

<< <i>Three questions:

1. Are these rarity ratings the same as those used for patterns?

2. Which of the 1811 varieties is the 1811/10, known as the 18.11 punctuated date?

3. What grades do the rarity measures reflect? >>



1. Haven't a clue about patterns.

2. The 1811 punctuated date is the O-101. The much rarer O-102 is the same obverse so is still considered the punctuated date but the dot has been nearly removed so this variety is not as popular, except with those like me that care about collecting all the varieties.

3. The rarity tables do not reflect rarity in grade and this is indeed an important issue. To see this you would need to formally join the Bust Half Nut Club and examine their complete member census.

stman

<< <i>The coin is what it is and it doesn't matter what someone else calls it. So, if you have the most current data, as all of us do who follow this series closely, then you have the knowledge to determine what the coin is really worth regardless of hype, misinformation or laziness. >>



Tom, very true. Which is why with this information I mentioned "I almost pulled the trigger." It wasn't quite worth to me what they were asking.
Also, it wasn't just this particular coin in question. I just wanted to make sure I was on the same page as the rest of you folks.

I see a few dealers and auction houses still going by Overton. Somehow I get the feeling though if a certain variety went UP
in Rarity according to this newer data, they might just use this information to their benefit.

Conder101

Collectors and specialist dealers use the up to date information, the "Industry" uses the old rarity ratings from the book. And if you think that is bad for the bust halves, consider that the "Industry" is still using the rarity ratings from Penny Whimsey on early date cents. And those ratings are from 1958! Many of the R-5 and higher pieces listed there are now R-3's.

gemtone65

Thanks, Mozin. The ratings seem to span from R-1 to R-8, just like the pattern measures. Therein, R-1 is the most common, R-8 is two or three known.

So, if this is the case, and B-101 is the 18.11 punctuated date, then this variety is listed as being most common. That's a little hard to believe, when I know it's one of the rarest in mint state.

mozin

<< <i>So, if this is the case, and B-101 is the 18.11 punctuated date, then this variety is listed as being most common. That's a little hard to believe, when I know it's one of the rarest in mint state. >>


Yes, O-101 is indeed R1 and NGC has listed 4 in MS but nearly all the listed 18.11/0 are also O-101; there are then likely another 7 in MS for a total of 11. The O-102 18.11/0 R4 has only one MS example listed.

My set piece O-102 is only XF40, with a dup the same grade. My O-101 set piece is AU55 with a couple of nice dups closeby. This points out the difficulty in finding the O-102. Collector demand for the overdate is so high and that is why you find it difficult to locate.
The O-102 cherrypick is out there and ripe for picking.