Does the very high premium for color extend to other series besides Commens?

TahoeDale

We have all seen multiples of 10 to 20 times sheet(perhaps more) paid for the real special "monsters" in the Classic Commem series. My friend Gregg has been a leader along with several other knowledgeable dealers, experts and collectors.

What other coins are commanding this multiple, or anything close to it.? I know there will be a premium for any coin in a "special condition". I have paid double for highly toned lib nickels in Proof, 50% more for Proof Barber halves, and 25 to 30% for some of the MS bust halves that are lusterous and originally toned.

But is there any series(not just a single spectacular coin) where all the dates will get the very high mutiple when the surfaces are colored to an nth degree.

And why are there not more series that do as well as the Commems when the coins are as beautiful?

coinguy1

Dale, among the things that the commem series has going for it is the fact that many of the issues are quite low priced (until you get to the super high grades, at least).

As I'm sure you already know, It's typically much easier for a $300 coin to sell for many multiples of a published price than it is for a $3000 coin to do so.

If you examine other series (such as Buffalo Nickels and Mercury Dimes, among others) which contain a number of low priced representatives, you can also find examples of coins bringing huge premiums for their color.

TahoeDale

Mark,

Good thinking! You must have had a good night, ate breakfast, and took the dog for a walk.

And you didn't even correct my spelling errors. You are having a wonderful Memorial Day.

So it's the ability to pay $3000 to $10,000 for a $500 coin. and the very limited ability or need to pay $100,000 for a $7500 to $10,000 coin. The latter is rare and desirable for grade as it sits, and doesn't need the hype of the painter's brush?

I thought so.

TONEDDOLLARS

I think you rationale aplies to the Morgan series as well

jcping

Ike dollars come to mind, at once

solid

Yes, even for lowly Jefferson nickels.

I think Mark made a good point - Many Jeffersons have baseline pricing of $30-50, while
a spectacularly toned example can fetch hundreds.

I just ask myself if I'd rather have these (the last 18 1944-D NGC MS67 nickels sold through Heritage):



Or this:



I'm sure some folks think I'm nuts, but I'll choose the latter anytime.

Ken

michael

But is there any series(not just a single spectacular coin) where all the dates will get the very high mutiple when the surfaces are colored to an nth degree.

yes gem proof indian head cents !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





monster killer amazing vibrantly toned spectacular
gem proof two cent pieces !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
gem proof three cent nicks
type two three cent silvers in gem ms
gem mintstate original capped bust half dimes
gem proof braided hair half cents and cents!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
gem proof lib nicks
gem proof satin 36 buff nicks
gem matte proof lincoln cents!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
gem proof and mintstate indian head cents copper nickel indian head cents also!!!!!!!!!
gem ms cc seated quarters!!!!!! wild!!
early large size open collar strike gem ms pre 1828 capped bust dimes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
gem proof and ms seated /barber coinage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
gem ms and proof twenty cent pieces!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
choice to gem unc bust halves!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
gem unc gold dollars post 1878!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
gem proof classic head half cents!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! cameoed a plus but most are cameoed moreso on the obverse the side that counts!!



make monster toned early commems and morgan dollars and merc dimes and franklins look like common grains of sand in the desert
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
And why are there not more series that do as well as the Commems when the coins are as beautiful?

well the other series as per the above are really scarce to rare with beautiful vibrant color and since the supply is soooooooo non existant ----- you need supply to have/create a demand
and since many colored coin buyers have not seen as such let alone know they exist you cant have demand if no one knows they are out there combined with the human condition of fear of the unknown where if some colored coin buyers see such an animal they do not understand it so they fear it

leads to little to no searching for such coins hence no demand so they do not do as well as the colored early commems and morgan dollars

and supply is really not the issue here and as with ALL coins it is only DEMAND...............

TahoeDale

Solid,

I really appreciate the image of the prettiest Jefferson I have ever viewed. And great photograpy too.

If this were a 1944-P, with a published price around $3000 in 67, could it demand 10 times sheet? Or would it go off at 2 to 3 times?

There are very few coins in the series' I collect that ever come as highly toned and colorful as this nickel, or the many Morgans and Commems we see regularly. But when one does see a beautiful Proof Barber,a seated liberty, a Bust half, or an original toned AU 58 early dollar, the premium is usually 30 to 50% above sheet, or sometimes as much as the price for the next higher grade. But never 5 to 10 times those amounts.

What started the willingness of knowledgeable collectors in these later series to pay this much for color. Even in the indian cents, with monster color, the premiums are not as much.

Sunnywood

Dale,

Beautifully toned Morgan dollars routinely sell for 10-20x in the common dates. Even the better dates and grades can sell for multiples. An 1881-S PCGS MS66 realized $9775 at auction in February. It was bought by Larry Shepherd, who also deals in the astronomical commems. I know of one 1881- NGC MS66 whose owner turned down $25,000 for the coin. I paid over $10,000 for an 1888-O PCGS MS66 with insanely wild color. An 1878 8TF that realized $1700 in an NGC MS65 holder later found its way into a PCGS MS66 holder, then realized over $20,000 based on its magnificent clear colors. An 1885-CC PCGS MS67 with color sold retail for $15,000.

On the other hand, the very expensive key dates don't do as well with color in the Morgan series. The magnificent and finest known Eliasberg 1893-O PCGS MS66PL was (sadly) dipped earlier this year after it failed to sell for $200,000 at auction. The beautifully toned Vermeule 1893-S PCGS MS67 failed to sell at auction this year, and I know that its owner (Jack lee) would dip it in a flash if he thought it would still be an MS67. At the high end, there is still a preference for white Morgans - so that is a bit different from the commem series. But basically, I would say Morgans are right up there with commems in terms of premiums for color.

Best,
Sunnywood

monsterman

sunnywood

>>>I paid over $10,000 for an 1888-O PCGS MS66 with insanely wild color>>>>

and that is by far and away the best 88-0 there is...in fact...its so far in front of the rest it has laped the field.....twice....in fact you need sun glasses to look at it!!!!

>>>>But basically, I would say Morgans are right up there with commems in terms of premiums for color.

yep... i agree

Colorfulcoins

Even true for Roosevelt Dimes....I recall a Heritage Sale earlier this year -= perhaps FUN - where an insanely toned 1950-D PCGS MS67FB Rosy sold for $2500. Compare that to a plain-jane white coin that sells at $50-60 and may occasionally reach $100. That insanely toned coin sold for 25x to 50x plain-jane market. But once again, as Mark pointed out above, we have a $100 coin and not a $10,000 selling for multiples. And as I recall, it was Larry Shepard that drove the price up but did not ultimately win......

ThatImpalaDude

Greetings. I note that Pinnacle has an 1892 Proof Barber half, wonderful toning, for $15,000, MS-68. Legend has a 1910 Proof half with lovely toning (I guess that is in the eye of the beholder), MS-68 for $24,500 and a 1911 Proof half, toned, for around 23,000, also MS-68.

Since I know nothing about the pricing of proof Barbers, and these are very low pop coins, can any of you proof Barber Half folks guesstimate how much of a premium is built into the prices of these great looking (In my opinion) coins??

Thanx in advance for your responses!!

Steve

coinguy1

Steve, at those grades and prices, it is likely that there is little, if any price premium for the color/toning.

Rather, the prices reflect mostly the high grades of the coins.

morgannut2

But of course, eye appeal includes color, so it's sort of built into grade.

But commems and common date (most) Morgans are often viewed as blank canvasses, They have the big premiums if the canvass is good (MS-65 or better)