Lame excuse!

EdnaPurviance

I buy a few cards from this guy--he charges me $19.95 for shipping (in all fairmess--it says that in the auction). I get the cards and the shipping cost was $5.65. I understand that shipping amounts can be "estimates," but jeez. So I wrote to the guy and asked me to refund the difference.

This was his response:

I'm not looking to get into a pissing match over a few dollars. But first, let me explain why I charge what I charge for shipping. Ebay raised there final fees to 8% for items purchased out of an ebay store, which is where this was purchased. Personally, I think that's outrageous, and as a result I've been forced to increase my shipping charge to offset this cost. (traditionally I would charge in the vicinity of $11.95 for shipping and handling, and yes you do have to factor the handling costs. Ie. fuel to the post office ( i live in California and pay $.2.79/gallon, my time etc....).

I will reduce your shipping fee from $19.95 to $11.95. I think that is more then fair. I hope this clears this matter up for you.

Any thoughts?

iamthegreatcornholio

Although I don't agree with jacked up charges, if that's what he listed it as, then it's hard to argue. $20 is ridiculous though if it only cost $5.65. If he gripes about the 8% eBay fee (that is damn high), he should factor that into the price rather than the s/h as that is more honest.

Personally, I just factor it into my bids - if I'm willing to pay $20 for a card and shipping is $2 then I bid $18, but if it's $5 I bid $15. I can't stand though when it's not disclosed.

I'd take the $8 back he offers and move on.

Just my two cents,

Brian

yawie99

Honestly, I think you're lucky to be getting back $8 since the guy was up front with his intent to screw you. Don't get me wrong, $14 in "handling" costs is completely outrageous and perhaps even neutral feedback-worthy. Heck, I beetch and moan when I pay $4+ and get a lousy bubble mailer with about 80 cents in stamps slapped on it, but what can you do when the costs are stated in the listing?

ctsoxfan

Another Ebay shipping thread -

But, I am amazed at the number of people that sell on Ebay who feel that they should be allowed to do so for free - i.e., pass on all costs (and then some) to their buyers via "handling fees". These people have no idea how businesses work in the real world - there are costs that you incur, and you can't pass them off directly to your customers. But, this seller was upfront about his getting you to pay for his fees, so - not much you can do. I would never buy from someone like that, however.

goudeygold

Simply figure shipping into your maximum bid. I don't care if I spend $200 and the shipping is $2 or $50. simply figure it in the total or don't bid.

GG

Axtell

By no means do I know every shipping cost, but if I see some ridiculous amount for shipping, I stay away, far away.

It's usually an indicator of other shady practices, if they are willing to gouge people for S/H, they are trying to do so in other areas.

Good job getting that reduced though I wouldn't buy from him again.

MorrellMan

The guy deserves points for giving you a refund. He had no legitimate need to do that other than to satisfy your request. He doesn't deserve a negative or neutral feedback at all. I would communicate back to him "thanks, I appreciate the help. I have interest in the cards you offer in your store; may I presume that any future purchases will carry a similar reduction in shipping?" or something like that.

A neutral feedback from you would, IMO, make you like petty and silly. The guy clearly states his shipping/handling cost. You agree to that when you buy the item. $5.65 in postage for a couple of cards sounds like he shipped it with about the best service you could get.
I'd be a different story if he stuck them in an envelope with a 37 cent stamp.

jrdolan

Not only do some sellers make their buyers cover their eBay and PayPal fees with extra S&H, but some actually jack up the S&H to REDUCE those fees at the source. Example: Card sells for $1.50 but shipping is $4.00. eBay and PayPal have to base their fees only on the $1.50. Multiply that by dozens or hundreds of cheap cards each week and you can see why certain sellers don't care whether their pack-busting leftovers sell for 1 cent each or $1.50. The profit's in the S&H.

Thulnanth

Thulnanth

Gotta stop that double posting

I very much agree with Goudy and Cornholio - just factor the shipping costs into your max bid, and if the seller won't tell you what they are, then don't bid.

dallasactuary

<< <i>The guy deserves points for giving you a refund. He had no legitimate need to do that other than to satisfy your request. He doesn't deserve a negative or neutral feedback at all. I would communicate back to him "thanks, I appreciate the help. I have interest in the cards you offer in your store; may I presume that any future purchases will carry a similar reduction in shipping?" or something like that.

A neutral feedback from you would, IMO, make you like petty and silly. The guy clearly states his shipping/handling cost. You agree to that when you buy the item. $5.65 in postage for a couple of cards sounds like he shipped it with about the best service you could get.
I'd be a different story if he stuck them in an envelope with a 37 cent stamp. >>




I second every point made; it's really very simple - if the shipping charge seems high, either reduce your bid accordingly or don't bid at all. Whining about it afterwards is ridiculous. I agree that the seller deserves your repeat business for accomodating you, but I wouldn't be surprised if you are on his blocked bidders list now.

Stone193

I agree with everyone - bid accordingly - S&H is plainly marked in this situation.

On the other hand, with all due respect, when someone comes here and asks for input - Dallas - why is it necessarily whining? The person may be just looking for advice. Furthermore, if I "blocked" everyone who asked for some kind of "discount" at my office, I wouldn't have a business left to block anyone - if this person has been a good customer, asking for a break is not off the chart - the "way" one asks can make a difference - in this case, I would email the seller and say something to the effect - "Hi, been a good customer - do you have a policy for negotiating S&H or is it etched in stone?" e.g.

mike

edit: I just wanted to say that I don't think the rationale of the seller is lame - but I do think it could be "limiting" some business?

yankeeno7

JR is right on the money.

Within the shipping is part of the price of the item. This is done to reduce the fees paid to Ebay and Paypal.

Base your purchase on the final price regardless what shipping is. The guy is just trying to do smart business for himself. If he has an excellent feedback, then most would probably agree he is not trying to price gouge and is the decision he made on how to do his business.

I dont know the facts of the transaction but maybe you got $300 book of cards for $50 including the shipping....Forget the shipping charges, are you happy with your purchase for that overall price?

stevek

Yes, the guy overcharged for shipping but that is his prerogative. I think it was cool that he reduced the shipping charge for you - he didn't have to do that since you said the shipping charge was clearly stated in the auction.

There have actually been times whereby I have won multiple lots from the same seller and have paid less shipping than I thought I would. One time I won 12 single card lots of 52 Topps commons from one seller and expected to pay $2 per card since he didn't mention anything about reduced shipping costs for combined lots. But I e-mailed and asked him nicely about this and he only charged me $3 shipping for all 12 lots - shipped of course in one small package - so by asking I saved a quick $21. One thing we can learn here from this thread - it can't hurt to ask

dallasactuary

<< <i>On the other hand, with all due respect, when someone comes here and asks for input - Dallas - why is it necessarily whining? The person may be just looking for advice. Furthermore, if I "blocked" everyone who asked for some kind of "discount" at my office, I wouldn't have a business left to block anyone - if this person has been a good customer, asking for a break is not off the chart - the "way" one asks can make a difference - in this case, I would email the seller and say something to the effect - "Hi, been a good customer - do you have a policy for negotiating S&H or is it etched in stone?" >>



Mike, I agree with everything you have said - provided the exchange with the seller happens before the sale. Do you really give your customers discounts a week or two after you thought your business with them was over, for the sole reason that they think they spent too much? I would think that would lead to you not having a business left pretty quickly, too. The way I read the initial post, the buyer was not a repeat customer and the seller took the e-mail (possibly correctly, possibly not) as a threat to leave negative feedback unless he coughed up some cash. If I were the seller, I would block this buyer; there's the risk of negative feedback, and there's the near certainty that a sale to this buyer brings in less money than a sale to another buyer (who is factoring the S&H into his bid).

DaBigHurt

I agree with the other posters. If you had a problem with the shipping charges, however excessive they were, you should've just refrained from bidding. If you don't feel comfortable paying what the seller is asking for s/h, then move on and look elsewhere.

Stone193

<< <i>

<< <i>On the other hand, with all due respect, when someone comes here and asks for input - Dallas - why is it necessarily whining? The person may be just looking for advice. Furthermore, if I "blocked" everyone who asked for some kind of "discount" at my office, I wouldn't have a business left to block anyone - if this person has been a good customer, asking for a break is not off the chart - the "way" one asks can make a difference - in this case, I would email the seller and say something to the effect - "Hi, been a good customer - do you have a policy for negotiating S&H or is it etched in stone?" >>



Mike, I agree with everything you have said - provided the exchange with the seller happens before the sale. Do you really give your customers discounts a week or two after you thought your business with them was over, for the sole reason that they think they spent too much? I would think that would lead to you not having a business left pretty quickly, too. The way I read the initial post, the buyer was not a repeat customer and the seller took the e-mail (possibly correctly, possibly not) as a threat to leave negative feedback unless he coughed up some cash. If I were the seller, I would block this buyer; there's the risk of negative feedback, and there's the near certainty that a sale to this buyer brings in less money than a sale to another buyer (who is factoring the S&H into his bid). >>


You're right Dallas
I wasn't honing in on the time frame - asking for a discount after the sale is a bit much - I was also talking about the whining thing - this person may not be whining - they may be unsure of where they stand and wanted our input.
Actually, I made more out of this - now that I look at it on sunday - I apologize for making more out of this than it there.

mike

baseballcardsonly

<< <i>I buy a few cards from this guy--he charges me $19.95 for shipping (in all fairmess--it says that in the auction). I get the cards and the shipping cost was $5.65. I understand that shipping amounts can be "estimates," but jeez. So I wrote to the guy and asked me to refund the difference.

This was his response:

(traditionally I would charge in the vicinity of $11.95 for shipping and handling, and yes you do have to factor the handling costs. Ie. fuel to the post office ( i live in California and pay $.2.79/gallon, my time etc....).

FUNNY....I just love hearing about "handling" charges and all these trips to the post office. I don't know about you guys but I live just outside Orlando and I can drive in any direction and pass a post office. These people make it sound like they make special trips 20 miles to FIND a post office. I guess Ebay sellers never leave the house and when they do its to ship YOUR package. If I go to the video store, I pass a post office. If I go to the grocery store, I pass a post office. If I go to work, I pass 3 post offices!! Plus last time I checked the mail man WILL PICKUP PACKAGES!!!

SoFLPhillyFan

<< <i>I agree with the other posters. If you had a problem with the shipping charges, however excessive they were, you should've just refrained from bidding. If you don't feel comfortable paying what the seller is asking for s/h, then move on and look elsewhere. >>



DaBigHurtmeister - any problem with PSA's shipping charges?

I refrain from bidding on auctions with obviously high shipping and handling. Three cards can easily be mailed in top loaders and bubble pack for $2.50, including all packaging and postage.

My question for EdnaP, what is the value of the cards? What were they? Hopefully the seller will work with you in the future.

My policy - up to three cards for $2.50, additional each .50. PSAs go Priority Mail for $4.00. Orders over $25 go Priority also and have to be insured. If anybody buys multiples or within a few days I look to see how I can reduce the cost.

As ctsoxfan says, it's the cost of doing business and the customer does not pay all of that cost.

Keith

MorrellMan

<< <i>FUNNY....I just love hearing about "handling" charges and all these trips to the post office. I don't know about you guys but I live just outside Orlando and I can drive in any direction and pass a post office. These people make it sound like they make special trips 20 miles to FIND a post office. I guess Ebay sellers never leave the house and when they do its to ship YOUR package. If I go to the video store, I pass a post office. If I go to the grocery store, I pass a post office. If I go to work, I pass 3 post offices!! Plus last time I checked the mail man WILL PICKUP PACKAGES!!! >>



Baseballcardsonly: This is not meant as an offense to you - but there is a great truth in handling charges. I charge reasonable shipping and handling, but the truth is that I don't slow down and toss my package out the window at the nearest post office. Delivery confirmation requires parking, standing in line and dealing with a postal worker. I do cards as a sidelight and fit the PO stops into my work day, where my time is worth about $100.00 an hour. With a 15 minute pit stop, that's $25.00. I wouldn't think of passing that on to my customers; that's certainly not their concern - but don't minimize handling costs. As long as it is not excessive, I expect a seller to pass on S&H that is more than the cost of postage and materials.

EdnaPurviance

The cards totaled about $500, which is why I thought the $19.95 shipping may have been for overnight shipping, insurance, etc. Nope, I didn't ask ahead of time what the shipping charge was comprised of. The cards arrived in a priority mail envelope, signature confirmation, total $5.65.

I agree I was lucky to get $8 back. And I wasn't threatening negative feedback. I won't leave negative feedback because (judging from the guy's feedback history), I will receive retaliatory negative feedback. I will, however, never buy from that seller again.

Here's the thing: I stand by the name I gave this thread--I just thought his explanation was lame--price of gas, etc.

I mostly sell on E-bay (and yup, I use the same user ID to buy and sell). If it were me, I would have refunded the whole amount, no questions asked. At this point we're talking about 6 bucks. If someone buys something from me, and they complain about shippping costs (which has probably happened 6-7 times in 5000 auctions), I refund the whole amount immediately. And I have received tremendous repeat business from those buyers.

Off topic a little: I'm also one of those sellers who leaves feedback immediately upon receipt of payment. Do I set myself up for unwarranted negative feedback? Sure. But I only have 2 in over 5000 auctions. I'm telling you--buyers LOVE sellers who leave feedback first. Makes all the difference in the world in the tone of the transaction and generates TONS of repeat business.

All of your responses are much appreciated!!

helionaut

I just won't bid on something if I think the S&H price is too high. I understand the idea of a total price being $X and it shouldn't matter how X is arrived at, but to me there's something wrong with someone charging $5 to ship a card unless the resulting $X is way, way under market price. It's not like ebayers are living out in the Yukon on totally self-sufficient farms where they only make a hard trek to town once a year. Seems to me that most people live one place and work another and there's a Wendy's they go to for lunch and there's a supermarket somewhere else and somewhere in between those points there's going to be a mailbox or a post office not too far out of the way. There's no special hardship in the modern world to drop a card in an envelope and go to the PO since you're going to be leaving your house pretty regularly, anyway. Sure there might be time involved at the PO, but there's also time involved on the buyer's end, too, especially if the seller doesn't take paypal. So if I'm willing to spend $10 on a card and the price is $5 with $5 shipping, I pass. It's just a sticking point with me, and very, very rare does the item have to be to make me go along with it.

notowellint

I personally try to estimate the actual cost of postage, insurance, and packaging and make that my s/h charge (sometimes I'm over, sometimes I'm under), but I don't have a problem with a minimal handling charge when I'm buying. What I don't agree with is a seller believing that their time is worth $XXX an hour because of how much they make in their career and so somehow that justifies them having a higher handling fee than the next seller. That's absurd. If you make a lot of money in your career job and don't feel it's worth your time to charge a reasonable handling fee (couple bucks at most), then don't sell on ebay. After all, if you could be making so much more money doing something other than stopping by the post office, then what are you doing using ebay anyway? "Ebay is my hobby"...well, then treat it as such; don't treat it like a second business.

yawie99

<< <i>Off topic a little: I'm also one of those sellers who leaves feedback immediately upon receipt of payment. Do I set myself up for unwarranted negative feedback? Sure. But I only have 2 in over 5000 auctions. I'm telling you--buyers LOVE sellers who leave feedback first. Makes all the difference in the world in the tone of the transaction and generates TONS of repeat business. >>



I'm totally with you here. I know it leaves a seller somewhat defenseless if there's a minor snafu or if a buyer is simply difficult and wants to drop an N bomb, but I think the goodwill that a seller generates by leaving the first feedback totally outweighs any risk.

Boopotts

I'm 100% behind Goudeygold. What's the big deal? Adjust your bid price accordingly. All the seller is trying to do is keep a few bucks away from Ebay-- nothing wrong with that.

I'd jack up the shipping to the moon on my auctions if I didn't think it would create all kinds of ridiculous hostilities. You're still paying the same price (provided your smart enough to adjust your bid), so nobody should have a problem with it.

yankeeno7

I just dont understand why anyone would have a problem with the shipping if you knew it ahead of time. Wouldnt a person just naturally factor that in their costs when bidding?
Of course, if shipping wasn't advertised and this was dropped after bidding, I would definately have a problem with that too....but then again, I dont bid on any auctions unless the shipping terms are stated specifically.

jrdolan

<< <i>If someone buys something from me, and they complain about shippping costs (which has probably happened 6-7 times in 5000 auctions), I refund the whole amount immediately. And I have received tremendous repeat business from those buyers. >>



Those repeat buyers who got free shipping because they complained -- do they now get free shipping each time?

EdnaPurviance

No, I don't provide free shipping thereafter.