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Do coins ever get over being cleaned?

stev32kstev32k Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
If a coin has been slabbed as cleaned is there ever a time it would not show the effects of cleaning? If a coin in an ANACS holder was net graded for cleaning could it be cracked out in say 10, or 25 years and not be net graded?
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Comments

  • DeadhorseDeadhorse Posts: 3,720 ✭
    Yes, but it will be graded lower.

    Carry it around with you and pocket wear will take care of it.

    There is another way, but it requires sweat glands. I've yet to see one transformed that way, but I've heard about it from several sources.

    For copper coins there is a commercial product that is supposed to give them back a natural look. Someone here will know the name of it.
    "Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose."
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  • mgoodm3mgoodm3 Posts: 17,497 ✭✭✭
    No, they take it very personally.
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  • K6AZK6AZ Posts: 9,295 ✭
    Not when they're cleaned like this.

    image
  • LanLordLanLord Posts: 11,722 ✭✭✭✭✭
    For copper coins there is a commercial product that is supposed to give them back a natural look. Someone here will know the name of it.

    Deadhorse,

    are you referring to deller's darkener?

    I've seen some coins posted and copper people in the know could tell pretty darn easy.
  • stev32kstev32k Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭
    I was thinking about something like this one. It was cleaned a long time ago by the looks of it and is retoning nicely. I just wonder how long (if ever) it would take before it did not show any signs of cleaning.
    image
    Who is General Failure, and why is he reading my hard drive?
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,313 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Some fairly recent auction results of old time collections that were somewhat moderately cleaned shows that once retoned with beautiful blues and greens, that the services often "neglect" the cleaning, and assign inordinately high grades. So the answer is yes.
    Not only have some of these coins overcome their cleanings....they are deemed more desireable than uncleaned coins in the same grade. Go figure! Who would have thought that 25 years ago!

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • magikbillymagikbilly Posts: 6,780 ✭
    The 1906 Benson 10c that is my icon was wiped long ago, but it looks ok to me. The colors were spectacular. The revervse is below.

    Billy
  • Smitty79Smitty79 Posts: 1,313


    << <i>No, they take it very personally. >>



    Heh...I thought the same thing when I read the title.
    - -

    Ask me no questions, I'll tell you no lies.
  • mirabelamirabela Posts: 5,079 ✭✭✭✭✭
    They can retone. They can become in other ways attractive, as in the Stacks' sale coins I think Roadrunner is referring to.

    Underneath that, though, a coin with bad hairlines (such as the one you display here) still has them. The only thing to be done about that is to do something further to the coin's surface that removes enough metal that the hairlines are no longer there, as in the suggestion above to carry it around in your pocket. End result is a coin with more wear but less visible evidence of abuse.

    There are other, faster ways to remove that metal, none of which will result in an original-looking surface but which might provide a better foundation for the eventual retoning you've got to hope for. Here is a door to a Faustian zone I avoid, but some coins nearly beg to have their awful scrubbed surfaces 'refinished' a little less clumsily.

    mirabela
  • stmanstman Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i> If a coin in an ANACS holder was net graded for cleaning could it be cracked out in say 10, or 25 years and not be net graded? >>



    Perhaps, and perhaps any service might grade it. They could grade it now. BUT, you would still have the same "Cleaned" coin
    now wouldn't you? But some folks only care about the label and if it's been blessed I guess. Nothing wrong if someone
    doesn't mind a cleaned coin.... but if they didn't like it when the thing was net graded and it gets a regular grade,
    and all of a sudden they like it, then somethings wrong somewhere.image
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  • stev32kstev32k Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭
    There are some cleaned coins that I like. As long as the cleaning was done carefully and they don't have a lot of distracting hairlines or scrub marks. The Half-Cent above is one and this two cent piece is another. I didn't know the two cent had been cleaned until it came back net graded by ANACS. I can't prove it but I believe a lot of Morgan dollars have been cleaned - I mean conserved with acetone. This may apply to a lot of uncirculated coins, and even some proofs.

    image
    Who is General Failure, and why is he reading my hard drive?
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,576 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A dipped coin can retone but hairlines are forever.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
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  • pf70collectorpf70collector Posts: 6,693 ✭✭✭
    Just look at the recent Eliasberg World Gold Auction. There were many coins that were previously cleaned and were assigned grades by NGC and I am not talking about the coins graded by NCS. I guess if the cleaning is old enough. Lot 3492 on ANR is an example of this.
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    Box of 20
  • mirabelamirabela Posts: 5,079 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Not many of us here would call an acetone dip cleaning; all acetone does is dissolve & remove organic surface contaminants. It doesn't do anything to the metal or the oxides thereon. It merely helps to lift away that which is not part of the coin anyway.
    mirabela
  • lathmachlathmach Posts: 4,720 ✭
    I heard that if you carry a cleaned coin loose in your briefs, it's take away all the evidence of cleaning in about 3 months.
    You can't change your shorts during this time, but it makes the coin so much better, it's worth it.
    After it's restored, you must not wash it or anything.
    Just pass it around to dealers to look at, and soon the smell and film will be gone from their handling it, and you'll have a beautiful coin again.

    Ray
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,576 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I heard that if you carry a cleaned coin loose in your briefs, it's take away all the evidence of cleaning in about 3 months.
    You can't change your shorts during this time, but it makes the coin so much better, it's worth it.
    After it's restored, you must not wash it or anything.
    Just pass it around to dealers to look at, and soon the smell and film will be gone from their handling it, and you'll have a beautiful coin again.

    Ray >>

    image

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,702 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Luster on proofs and uncirculated coins is very fragile. Once something compromises it
    it will be damaged forever. Circulated coins though merely have a present appearance
    which is based on the many things whicch have happened to them over the years. Most
    of this appearance is the result of recent events because earlier evidence is always being
    worn away. If the surfaces are unattractive because of cleaning then it's merely the cur-
    rent condition. Harsh cleaning as with a wire brush will leave tell tale signs even after it's
    worn down two or three more grades but light cleaning can be "repaired" with minimal
    effort. With copper they'll frequently just need to darken up a little and they'll look fine.
    Sometimes evidence of cleaning will almost disappear just by pushing a little oil from your
    fingers into the coin. This can make a good means of cleaning also.

    Some purists seem to be appalled by such things but consider that these processes are
    really no different than what happens to a coin in circulation so one is really returning such
    a coin to its natural state.
    Tempus fugit.
  • KurtHornKurtHorn Posts: 1,382 ✭


    << <i>A dipped coin can retone but hairlines are forever. >>



    Right on but, I would add that whizzing or polishing to a mirror like finish is forever. Once you've permanently altered the metal...
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