HOF based on Defense not Offense?

julen23

Does anybody think there are any current players that stand a chance of making HOF based on their defense instead of offense?

Omar Visquel- 9 gold gloves (2nd only to Wizard's 13)
Pat Matheny- 3 gold gloves (best defensive catcher in game today)
Andruw Jones-7 gold gloves (gotten much bigger and moved out of center field though)
Jim Edmonds- 5 gold gloves (human highlight reel)
Ken Griffey, Jr- 10 gold gloves (1990-99! Maybe we ride this guy too much, he was awesome in his prime!)
Ivan Rodriguez- 11 gold gloves (and World Series ring to boot)
Don Mattingly- 9 gold gloves (burned out topic)
===
Jim Kaat- 13 gold gloves (Why is this guy NOT in HOF btw?)
Keith Hernandez- 11 gold gloves

Defense wins championships, but doesn't equate to HOF career?

Julen

Stone193

Julen
I'm not a big stat guy and rarely debate HOF candidates but anything is possible. Ozzie Smith was something like a .260 lifetime hitter who only got a HR when the air was right and Jupiter aligned with Mars.
He was one of the top short stops I have ever seen play.

mike

halosfan

I think that Edmonds will be a very good test for this assuming he ends up playing well for several more years. He is an exciting outfielder to watch and has a solid bat with some pop. I'd love to see Edmonds inducted as an Angel! If this Cardinals sqaud continues to get to the playoffs and he preforms well that will help. Vizquel will have a tough time. Ivan Rodriguez is on his way (if not an early lock) but he has also put up very good offensive numbers for a catcher. Pat Matheny has NO chance. And Andruw Jones ... well I don't think of him and the Hall being together. However, he does have decent numbers and he has been a part of the remarkable Braves run. I just never get the sense he plays to his abilities. It will be interesting to see what the end result will be for the core players on that Braves team.

phreakydancin

Ozzie Smith is a great example. Two more who come to mind are Bill Mazeroski and Brooks Robinson. There are others as well.

That said, I think you need to be playing a defensive position to be voted in for your defense, which means outfielders and first basemen aren't going to make it in without the bats to match.

Tabe

>Omar Visquel- 9 gold gloves (2nd only to Wizard's 13)

Maybe, but I wouldn't hold your breath.

>Pat Matheny- 3 gold gloves (best defensive catcher in game today)

I'm sure Pat is flattered that you think he can play in the majors when he's not recording jazz albums, but I think you meant MIKE

Either way - no shot.

>Andruw Jones-7 gold gloves (gotten much bigger and moved out of center field though)

No shot. Outfielders have to hit, too, and Jones doesn't have HOF numbers.

>Jim Edmonds- 5 gold gloves (human highlight reel)

Maybe. If he gets to 400 HRs, I can see him being in. Tough to keep out a guy who averages .294/34/102 and a Gold Glove at a non-power position like CF.

>Ken Griffey, Jr- 10 gold gloves (1990-99! Maybe we ride this guy too much, he was awesome in his prime!)

He won't get in for his defense, but he will get in.

>Ivan Rodriguez- 11 gold gloves (and World Series ring to boot)

I-Rod is a first ballot HOF'er, but not just for his defense. He's a catcher who hits .300 with some power as well. Best all-around catcher of his era.

>Don Mattingly- 9 gold gloves (burned out topic)

Won't get in. Mattingly played a power position, but didn't put up HOF-caliber power numbers.

>Jim Kaat- 13 gold gloves (Why is this guy NOT in HOF btw?)

Putting a pitcher in for his defense is like putting in Ichiro for having the coolest shoes. In short, defense is essentially completely irrelevant for pitchers, at least when it comes to HOF consideration.

As a pitcher? Kaat has no shot. Way too many years of being just "ok" rather than great. Averaged barely 11 wins a year, less than 4.9 K/9IP, etc.

>Keith Hernandez- 11 gold gloves

See Don Mattingly, only even more so. 162 HRs in 17 years as a 1B, with only one year over 100 RBI and a career slugging % of .436? Absolutely no shot at the HOF.

>Defense wins championships, but doesn't equate to HOF career?

Defense doesn't win championships in baseball - pitching and hitting do. Just ask Boston.

Tabe

Axtell

The explosion in offense the past 10-15 years has really hurt guys who were great players of their era, but numbers pale in what's happening today. Jim Rice is a great example of this.

However I don't think you could ever look at just the defensive side of the ball, and the Gold Glove award, while usually accurate, sometimes has some serious hiccups (like Raffy winning it a couple years ago at 1B, when he played all of 30-something games there and DH'ed the rest).

I think the days of players like Ozzie Smith, while exciting fielders, but anemic hitters getting into the hall are forever gone. The game is so offensively driven now that it's unlikely you'll ever see it again.

N162Collector

I've never even heard of Pat Matheny

knglerxt

<< <i>I've never even heard of Pat Matheny >>




He's a jazz guitarist. From what I hear, one of the best.

baseballfanatic

<< <i>

<< <i>I've never even heard of Pat Matheny >>




He's a jazz guitarist. From what I hear, one of the best. >>




Pats pretty good on guitar, but his glove is pretty suspect...........