The 1958 DDO Lincoln cent...Fact or fiction?

razorface1027

I'm pulled all my rolls of wheaties today. Found some interesting specimens, too. My concern right now is

the 1958-P DDO. I wouldn't have thought there was such a animal until I read through my 2005 Redbook and

next to the 58 DDO in parenthesis is "Rare." So, out come the rolls of 58s. I went to coppercoins site in

search of a pic of this supposed 58 DDO and found nothing. There's some reading on a 1958/7; however,

experts seem to have voided the fact that such a specimen exists/existed. My question is...Is there a

1958 DDO? If so, where's the doubling located? Coppercoins' light's off, so I can't pm him. Anyone with info.

post to this thread or pm me...I'd appreciate it.

RBinTex

Check the Cherrypickers guide on pg. 126

It DEFINITELY exists.

pharmer

Don't have mine with me, but I've seen the pictures in Cherrypickers with some info about it. It has a CPG number, and is listed in CONECA's master listings. Very strong.

Edited to daydream: what would one of those babies go for in auction?

razorface1027

Check the Cherrypickers guide on pg. 126

Tain't got one.


Tom

MadMarty

Thank god it's not a dime or we would never see one in the CherryPickers guide Vol2!!!

millennium

If I attribute it, can I post a pic from the CherryPickers guide?...

pharmer

You may. What, you waiting for JT to respond? Life is too short.

millennium

Courtesy of The Cherrypickers Guide.

coppercoins

This doubled die has always been a subject of controversy.

It is believed that these were likely produced clandestinely (on purpose) and placed into marked bags, where they were purchased after being shipped to a specific place on purpose. My belief is that is highly unlikely knowing the way coins are shipped from the mints, and knowing that in 1958 doubled dies were scarcely considered valuable. The overall cherrypicking community was extremely small (I know of only two people who bothered in 1958 and I know of hundreds now) and the logistics to pull something like this off would have been nearly impossible.

My belief is that, like with other documented cases, the die was discovered rather early in the striking process, and the mint destroyed the whole batch of coins, with only a handful escaping the mint. The 1955 doubled die would have been a similar story except that immediate orders and a painful production shortage at the time forced their release.

There are at least two other rather major doubled dies that never found their way into more than a couple dozen collections, the 1969S DDO and the 1970S DDO...but the 1958 takes the cake.

At last known reporting there are two known, neither of which were found within the past 15-20 years. Thousands of rolls of 1958 Lincolns and tens of thousands of bags of circulated wheats later, and not one single example has been reported beyond the two that were evidently found from the same roll many years ago. I still need to contact a number of different sources to find out where and when the two were found. That would be an interesting story in itself.

If there are more than the initial two examples, I would like to know about them. Please add to my story or correct me if I am missing something.

JRocco

Only think missing C.D. is my smiling face saying I found one----but alas----I am still looking though.

razorface1027

Oh well, I went through the (5) 58 rolls and found ZIP. One of these days.


Tom

braddick

Is there a 58 poorman's DD?!

richbeat

The only thing I would add to the 1955 DDO story is that the DDO's were mixed in with regular 1955 cents, and for the reasons you cited, it was decided to release them, rather than destroy millions of cents.

coppercoins

Richbeat - thanks for the addition to the story. I tend to assume people know that a number of pairs of dies are used simultaneously in coin production and forget to mention such things in my statements. I shouldn't assume such things, an easy oversight. Yes, true, millions of coins would have to bite the dirt to yank a hundred thousand or fewer doubled dies out of circulation for that very reason.

I can't exactly answer for the 1995 doubled die which has been found and certified ad nauseum at this point. Seems that die lasted through a few complete working days of production and minted some million or more examples. Its early discovery helped its survival rate, but really....seems like everyone has at least one of them. I guess the quality control required to detect doubled dies and get rid of the evidence was a bit lacking at the time.

So like myself, do you ever wonder what WAS caught and completely destroyed? Or even what was caught before it made it to the press in the first place?

richbeat

Thanks, Charles! Yes, I do wonder from time to time. This might be a little OT, but here's a story you might find a bit interesting.

In 1979 I worked at a bank in Virginia. Right after the SBA's were released we ordered a $1000 bag, and when we got it, the teller that opened the bag found an oblong blob of metal mixed in with the dollar coins. It appeared to be of the same copper nickel alloy as the coins. She ended up keeping it, but I've often wondered how that blob made it out of the Philly Mint without someone catching it. I don't recall seeing any trace of a design on it. Would something like that have any numismatic value? How would you prove that it came from a bag of SBA's from Philly?

coppercoins

Would something like that have any numismatic value? How would you prove that it came from a bag of SBA's from Philly?

I don't know the answers to those questions for sure, but I believe if it has the same weight and metallic composition as an SBA the story would be believable enough to sell to an error dealer.

BWRC

I have had the 58DDO in hand as it was shipped to us to consider bidding on in a closed bid auction, we submitted a bid for the coin around 25K, it was the mid 1990's. We got beat out by a few dollars. A super rare coin. If my memory serves me right it was a nice specimen graded MS64RD. It might have been in an ANACS holder. 2 known is probably correct.

(We) Rick Snow and myself as owners of Eagle Eye Rare Coins.

koynekwest

I believe Sam Lukes had one for sale at $100,000 a few years ago. Can't remember if it sold or not. I would think that price would be a bargain today.

BWRC

Sam has had most of the Lincoln DDO rarities pass through his hands. He might have been involved with the closed bid auction I mentioned in the above post. We did allot of business with Sam.

kranky

Very interesting thread. I've always wondered why the 1958 DDO never got much press but I suppose it's one of those coins which is too rare for its own good, with only two known.

grip

Interesting,does anyone know how many 69 DDO there are?
Al

EagleEye

Back around 1997 we (with Brian, as Eagle Eye Rare Coins) were in a three-way sealed bid auction for the PCGS 64RD 1958 DDO. I bid $25K, the winning bid was $25,025. I was very dissapointed to say the least. The buyer consigned it to Sam a few years later for $80K (who knows - maybe still a rip!). Trouble with this coin is it's too rare for collectors to consider owning, including Stewart (unless he bought it at $80K).


here's a pic:

razorface1027

WOW...I DIG that DDO. *I wasn't fortunate to come across one in the rolled 58s that I have.



Tom

LeeG

Great Information posted by all! Thanks Alot!!!

Russ

<< <i>Trouble with this coin is it's too rare for collectors to consider owning, including Stewart (unless he bought it at $80K). >>



He bought the other one.

Russ, NCNE

koynekwest

Coppercoins-

Since the 1995-P 1-O-V is so common, it makes me wonder why the '95-D is so rare. I've seen '95-P's in such a late die state that they look like a Class VI doubled die. That tells you right there the die ran a good, long time.

As to the '58-I'll bet there are a few more out there-SOMEWHERE!