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I left a negative feedback and I believe it was warranted... wdyt?

Ok, so I end up paying a premium for a high-end card, the '96 SI For Kids Woods RC in PSA 10, winning the card the same day Tiger chips in to win the Masters in a playoff this past April. The seller assures the buyer in the auction that it is the "finest example he has ever seen" and that he has "seen many, many examples" of said card. The seller then goes on to make a point that the card is devoid of any "yellow bleed" along any of the edges, front or back --- an obvious sticking point that seperates gem mint examples from the FINEST examples discovered so far; it can mean a premium of 10 to 25% based on the demand but always commands a premium. The seller has provided decent scans of the card's front and back, but neither scan was the largest nor the crispest I'd ever seen, but seemed to be consistent with the grandiose description of the card...

Well, to make a long story just a bit shorter, I received the card in the mail two days ago and wouldn't you know it, on the back left edge of the card there IS yellow bleed, though minimal, yet easily visible to the naked eye of even the most casual observer,, though it is not obvious in the seller's original scan (though now I can see where an off-white/yellow sliver exists upon closer scrutiny of the scan).

I paid what I believe to be about $700-900 above what PSA 10's had been going for on EBAY and elsewhere, as the final price I paid was $3800.00 for the specimen... I was comfortable with it because I believed I was receiving a rare "no bleed" gem mint example of the finest golfer of our generation; needless to say, I was a bit dissappointed to see the flaw in the card I was trying to avoid.

Also, there is significant rippling in the plastic on the PSA slab, as if the slab has been subjected to extreme heat if only briefly, but the seller assured me that "that is how all PSA holders look, you must be new to collecting...". At least that part made me laugh... I will gladly pay the $5 for a reholdering, but it is the principle that bugs me behind the seller's either ignorant or deceptive claim. Did I mention that the transaction took well over a month to complete even after I sent him a Wachovia Cashier's check that he claims Wells Fargo held for 11 days before it cleared? Gimme a break...

Needless to say, I had no choice but to leave a negative feedback, and it was his 1st out of 130 positives... I think people that straight out lie about even graded cards need to be made an example of...

that's my story, and I hope it helps others in here who have been so helpful to me.

Comments

  • stevekstevek Posts: 29,035 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This liar seller well deserved the neg.
  • If his only response was "you must be new to collecting" I probably would have neg'ed him too. Lieing about something and making the scans to small to see it is shady. My only question is, is it a regular deal for PSA to grade those types of cards a 10 even with the "bleeding"? Just curious.
    Ryan
  • MorrellManMorrellMan Posts: 3,240 ✭✭✭
    The neg would be the least of my concerns from either the buyer's or the seller's point of view. You paid almost 4 grand for a card that you couldn't hold in your hand to evaluate and had to go by the seller's description. Then it turns out to be not true. If I was the seller, I couldn't sleep at night without giving you your money back and if I was the buyer I would have my lawyer, the FBI, local police and anyone else I could round up to threaten this guy with if he didn't make this deal good.

    So sorry this has happened to you.
    Mark (amerbbcards)


    "All evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
  • smallstockssmallstocks Posts: 1,631 ✭✭✭✭
    Personally speaking, if I sell a "super premium" card I will pay the extra $.75 ebay charges to prvide a larger scan so no doubt exists.

    Mike

    Late 60's and early to mid 70's non-sports
  • Thank you everyone, and while I am a bit dissappointed, it is not the end of the world by any means. I suspect I will be able to sell the card for twice what I paid by the time Tiger surpasses Jack in majors (something I truly believe will happen), it is just the fact that the seller tried to hoodwink a prospective buyer and was lucky enuff to have his auction end on Master's sunday with Tiger winning... he truly hit the jackpot at my expense. Fortunately, I have more than adequate financial resources and this little blip is no big deal.

    I just hate it when someone makes a bold face lie to my face and then denies it. Too bad Ebay only allows 80 characters for a feedback, I had to be too general as to the deception that took place.

    Does anyone else remember this particular auction back in April? Just curious...
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    How about a link?

    Good for you.
  • just go to EBAY and type in auction # 5179648039 to witness the hype I succumbed to... I especially like the "god bless" part lol. What a d*ck.

    I just ripped him again via e-mail reminding him of why I left him a negative and warning him of future deception on the e-waves as I will be sure to e-mail prospective bidders on his future auctions if he submits any more "grandiose" descriptions of items he intends to sell.
  • RipublicaninMassRipublicaninMass Posts: 10,051 ✭✭✭
    Warranted negative, if everyone was like you the feedback system would actually work...Kudos!
  • pandrewspandrews Posts: 7,598 ✭✭✭
    did he send you the PSA 10 JORDAN and MANTLE in the auction also? oh nevermind, that was just his keyword abuse..
    ·p_A·
  • calleochocalleocho Posts: 1,569 ✭✭
    Maybe the seller was an older man and couldnt see the yellow bleeding, you did say it was quite minimal

    Regardless of the sales pitch, i dont think a neg was warranted.

    Maybe i just have lowered expectation of ebay, But i am usually a happy camper if i get the card.

    The seller provided scans, you could have also emailed him privately to make sure you knew exactly what you were getting.

    Lots of big dealers will talk up their cards beyond belief ( mastronet anyone?)

    they will also take scans of the cards and work with color saturation and different background colors to hide certain edge chipping and corners. They will call cards "rare" and low pop when they are neither and the list goes on.

    I have seen scans that are so bright that it makes the card look like it has been bleached. Modern reprints have darker borders!

    While i could see paying a premium for a particular strong grade, It would be do so with the card in hand.

    $3800 its an enormous amount of money to me, i would have made sure that i knew exactly what i was getting, why would i trust a salesperson?

    Maybe a trusted dealer, but a guy with just 130 feedbacks?

    sadly ebay its not the place where you can trust blindly, everyone its doing everything they can to maximize profit.

    You were negligent in your inspection of the card and now you have an average PSA 10 for which you paid 4X the going rate.

    There were scans of the card, You got the card he was selling.

    Did you ask questions? Did you ask for larger detailed scans?

    wether he was deceptive or just using some "creative marketing", you should take some responsibility as well.













    "Women should be obscene and not heard. "
    Groucho Marx
  • Hey callecheo, did you go to the auction and read what the seller had to say about his card? Obviously not. And while he only has 131 or so feedbacks, they were ALL POSITIVE. And the seller is no "older man" it is a husband and wife team in their 30's who almost definitely bought the card for FAR more than they sold it for, taking the biggest bath, but way to make excuses for an obviously dishonest seller... And as far as paying 4X the going rate, last I saw, Woods SIFK PSA 10's are not selling for under $1000.00, so you can save the snide comments. You sound like you also employ deceptive verbiage and hype your own auctions, though you refer to this practice as merely "creative marketing"...you seem to know all the tricks regarding color saturation and the use of software to enhance scans of cards...hmmmmmm... as for accepting some responsibility for the transaction, I understand that I am responsible for paying for the card, which I did, with a Wachovia cashier's check the seller claims took 11 days to clear... their credit must not be very good as I have never heard of such a thing. Don't know why you would for one second even consider taking the sellers' side here, but oh well...

    Bottom line, the seller was dishonest and unfortunately I was trusting enuff to take a shot on what IS actually a perfect example of the card, save for the sliver of yellow bleed that is not completely obvious on the scans the seller provided. I had only 2 1/2 hours to act on the auction, and based on how long the transaction took to complete, there was no guarantee I'd get a response or a larger scan... sometimes you just have to take a shot, but since $4k is a lot to you, I do not expect you to understand this. The seller said "NO YELLOW BLEED". Obviously, he was lying and provided an inconclusive scan, period.

    I am glad I could be the first to tarnish this clown's feedback rating, it was bound to happen sooner or later anyway.
  • DaBigHurtDaBigHurt Posts: 1,066 ✭✭
    If PSA gave the card a GEM MINT 10 grade, then I really don't understand what the problem is. This is the highest possible grade a card can receive, so your investment is protected! When it comes time for you to resell this card, believe me, buyers will be banging down your door because this is graded by PSA to be a GEM MINT 10. NOTHING ELSE MATTERS!!!

    I remember how proud you were when you first purchased this card, after Tiger won at the Masters. Don't let something minor like "yellow bleeding" affect how you feel about your purchase. image
    image

    GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
  • Thank you DBH, but I truly thought I was purchasing a PERFECT SPECIMEN because everything else about the card IS perfect. Though you are obviously a "fan" of PSA (understatement), you must also realize that not all PSA 10s (or 9's or 8's or 7's etc.) are created equal. When I announced to this board that I won this auction, I was looking for feedback as to whether my purchase was a wise one... now I know that it was not, as far as recent mkt prices would suggest.

    In the last 20 minutes, the seller has e-mailed me and admitted that he copied and pasted the description of the card, explaining that it came from the auction that he'd won and that he paid $4500 for the card originally. So I was correct that he took a bath, and I was correct that not only was the description dishonest, but it is the same one (that sucked him in, my words) and he used it AGAIN! He did not change one word. How freakin' lazy are people for heaven's sake...?

    It is sounding more and more like the seller is just lazy, stupid, or both... either way, vezzboochie deserved a negative and that is what vezzboochie received. Live and learn.

  • imageimage
    Scott

    T206's are always being bought.


    aloof1003@comcast.net
  • DaBigHurtDaBigHurt Posts: 1,066 ✭✭
    Perhaps you should try and contact Mr. Joe Orlando. Explain to him the circumstances. I know that PSA will buy back cards that were misgraded. If you think this card was overgraded, it may be worth a try. Either way, good luck. image
    image

    GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
  • calleochocalleocho Posts: 1,569 ✭✭
    Time machine,

    Listen, I am sorry that you feel that you were cheated. It is never a good thing when collectors walk away from a deal with a sour taste in their mouths.

    I personally think you were just suckered in by his lame Hype and that you should take some responsibility for not asking more questions and paying a premium for a card with mediocre scans and from a seller you never dealt with before.

    But hey i guess money its not a big deal to you. I have no idea how it feels to make 4 figure deals on cards.

    Maybe it requires less common sense.

    Also, i hardly sell online, and besides i am just a poor collector of mid grade cards and i wouldnt have any over priced, speculative modern cards to hype anyways.



    "Women should be obscene and not heard. "
    Groucho Marx
  • softparadesoftparade Posts: 9,276 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Did you ask for a refund?

    ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240

  • Understood callecheo... and DBH, please get real, but thanks for the laugh... as if King Joseph himself would accept my call LOL. BTW DBH, how would PSA make a mistake?

    I am not seeking a refund because I AM accepting responsibility for my decision to buy the card, the whole "buyer beware" thing. I am not convinced I will never beable to recoup my investment and then some, as only a handful of examples as nice as mine exist. I thought I was buying one thing, per the recycled description, and received another.

    And the seller received the appropriate feedback imo... I appreciate all the opinions and comments, I had no idea this thread would develop like this...

    Maybe the seller will not be dishonest or lazy next time...
  • Have to agree with Calleocho on this one
  • pandrewspandrews Posts: 7,598 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Have to agree Calleocho on this one >>



    me too..
    ·p_A·
  • Stone193Stone193 Posts: 24,407 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't know the card that well - what is this yellow bleed thing? Is it on some cards and not others?
    Anyone have a pic? Does "some" bleed still keep it in the 10 arena?

    mike
    Mike
  • sayheykid54sayheykid54 Posts: 779 ✭✭
    It's my feeling that a seller shouldn't have to give his/her opinion on the strength of the grade assigned by Psa. The grade is the grade. The best thing a seller can do is provide large clear scan of the card being sold. The best thing a buyer should do is make a determination on how they feel the card falls on the grading scale based on the pictures. A negative feedback should not be left on this transaction.
  • dallasactuarydallasactuary Posts: 4,338 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>It's my feeling that a seller shouldn't have to give his/her opinion on the strength of the grade assigned by Psa. The grade is the grade. >>



    I agree with that statement. BUT, the seller did not just say "this is a PSA 10"; he said that there was no bleeding of the yellow ink, front or back. When he said that, IMO, he took over responsibility for the buyer's satisfaction from PSA, at least with regard to that particular defect. While I agree that buying the card took something of a leap of faith, that in no way excuses the seller for telling a lie. A well-deserved negative.

    This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
  • AkbarCloneAkbarClone Posts: 2,476 ✭✭✭
    oops--wrong thread
    I collect Vintage Cards, Commemorative Sets, and way too many vintage and modern player collections in Baseball (180 players), Football (175 players), and Basketball (87 players). Also have a Dallas Cowboy team collection.
  • alright boys... Looks like timemachine is meeting in the middle here. He states that "I AM accepting the blame" and realizes he probably should have asked for detailed scans. Despite this he leaves a negative. IMO... the negative is indeed justified. If you have a PSA 10 with obvious yellow bleeding on the reverse, then you SPECIFICALLY state the card has NO bleeding, then you are being deceitful.

    solution to the problem: State "PSA 10 GEM MINT, please see scans" end of story. If your going to go into explicit detail than you better be dead on accurate in your description.

    The negative in this case was fully warranted IMO, I would have done the same only after being denied a refund.

    As for the card doubling and selling for 8 grand after he passes Jack... Well, it is possible (like anything else) but once cards dip, they just don't come back. Didn't one of these sell for 100,000 or something stupid?

    Anyway, the card is still very nice i'm sure, and since you have play money its no biggie to you. Enjoy the card, and we'll all see what lies ahead.

    GG

    Didn't I say before that anyone who brings God into the picture should have red flags flying up? Another fine example!! The only reason people say this is to get your guard down (even if you don't realize it).
  • SDavidSDavid Posts: 1,584 ✭✭
    Look at the bright side - at least it was just your card. Remember the first bathroom scene in There's Something About Mary?

    "We've got a bleeder!"
  • sagardsagard Posts: 1,899 ✭✭✭
    The buyer felt deceived. Negative experience, so the negative is warranted. From the comment it is clear the $3800 item was in fact delivered. I don't think this will hurt the seller at all.

    I'm guessing the negative and the "retaliation" could have been avoided with better communication before and after the auction. A partial refund certainly could have been an option.
  • Thank you everyone for your sincere and honest opinions. Like I said, the seller finally admitted to buying the card for $4500.00, and BEFORE he ended up admitting via e-mail that he actually recycled the description from the auction he won (he did not mention the seller who originally wrote this description) for his own auction, he tried to tell me that the yellow bleed was not on the card when in HIS possession, like I am full of sh*t or something... I gave vezzboochie 24 hours to explain himself, as to why the description claimed there was no bleed when it is very clear that there is even to the naked eye, before I gave him the negative feedback, and all he came up with is that the he couldn't see the bleed, and that I must be "new to collecting graded cards." And then tries to claim that all PSA slabs come slightly rippled or mildly melted as this one appears to have been exposed to a excessive heat at some point.

    How would you react to such stupidity or arrogance...?

    Only after all this did he fess up to cutting and pasting the description from the very auction he won for $4500.00, after I confronted him, after I called his bluff. In my book, that clearly shows his deceit, end of story; this clown EARNED his neg. imo.

    This is the first negative I've ever given anyone, and I hope I never have to give another.

    on a lighter note...

    Personally, I think Tiger will win 8-10 Green Jackets and 18-24 majors when he's done, and after he does that, there will certainly be a shortage of his earliest cards in gem mint condition... I will just have to sit back and root for Tiger week in, week out, and pop the cork on the day he surpasses the Golden Bear... I've got time.
  • Sounds to me like a bunch of whinning about nothing.
    1) Feedback is overrated. Unless you have a BUNCH of negs, knowone cares.
    2) It's a 10 . Will always be a 10, and will sell as a 10.
    3) It sounds like you put too much emphasis/pride on a retal neg.
    4) Give me 4k and you can neg me all day.
  • StingrayStingray Posts: 8,843 ✭✭✭
    Can someone post a closeup of this yellow bleeding that this is all about?

    Stingray
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