GAI Grading

Stingray

Was looking through the SMR magazine and going through the auctions ads. I noticed that there were some high end cards graded by GAI. A 52 Topps Mantle, a 33 Goudey Ruth, etc. Knowing that PSA is going to get you a better return why would someone have there high end cards graded by GAI. I do know, but has GAI already built up a reputation for themselves?


Stingray

baseballfanatic

I guess that if you've only driven Cadillacs all your life, theres nothing wrong with trying out a Mercedes to see how it runs...................

Knuckles

Maybe the cards were sent to PSA and/or SGC but were returned back with evidence or alteration of some sort... (I don't hold GAI very highly, nice holders though)

A761506

I agree with Knuckles, I'll bet the cards were rejected elsewhere when dealing with high dollar cards that you would expect to find in a PSA holder due to the increased value it would give. GAI cards sell for significantly less both on eBay and through big auctions because many collectors do not value their grades as much as PSA.

Stone193

One interesting note
People have been reporting an increase in the number of GAI cards at shows. The problem: many believe that GAI is very "dealer friendly" with respect to getting .5 bumps and the benefit of the doubt. That I don't know personally.

Also, I have heard reports of very bad customer service. Has anyone dealt directly with them. On the positive side - they are personally liked by many collectors. I'm referring to Mike Baker e.g.

Watch for SGC to make a big pitch this year to get a bigger market share. I like the looks of the holders for certain brands.

Mike

aro13

For the cards that you mentioned 52 Topps Mantle 33 Goudey Ruth etc. the holder (PSA, GAI, SGC) does not really matter. The card will sell well regardless of which companies holder it is in.

Knuckles

Sell well yes.. sell for more than PSA.. no.

ndleo

I hope GAI gains market share. As a consumer of grading services, I support competition. It forces the companies to improve their service.

Stone193

<< <i>I hope GAI gains market share. As a consumer of grading services, I support competition. It forces the companies to improve their service. >>


leo
That's an excellent point but for many who collect with an eye towards appreciation, customer service is secondary to who's top dog on resale.

Competition may keep fees in check...if there were no competition, I don't think one would ever see monthly specials?

mike

jrdolan

Wayne Varner at WV Shoebox crossed the bridge to GAI last summer. His catalog is now 95% GAI. He still buys PSA (and SGC), then sends them to GAI in hopes of that half-point bump. Judging from his catalog, he gets what he wants quite a bit of the time. To be fair, perhaps he chooses only cards that are high-end for their grade. The ones he has bought in my auctions I would characterize as such.

PSA could nip this in the bud by going to a half-point system themselves. But it would alienate a lot of faithful customers, a fact they have no doubt considered.

goudeygold

wv shoebox cards have gone to GAI because they have faith in them. Another point he told me was PSAs standards have changed over the last 12 years, where as GAIs have not. I recently cracked an old flip PSA card and resubmitted and lost a grade (6 to a 5). I got another old flip (rounded inner red border) from 707 last week that clearly has pencil marks on the back but no MK designation. Personally I put more faith in new PSA flips but its tough when your dealing with pre-war. Many of the best cards were graded early and have the old flips. Many are accurate, but I some that absolutely are not.

I've talked with GAI and they were very nice and do a great job. Their prices do tend to trail PSA, BUT their prescence is becoming more and more known every card show I go to, as well as the major auction houses. Look at milehighcardco.com, tons of VERY nice GAI cards and they are getting the bids.

Time will tell,

GG

CDsNuts

I don't think a GAI 8.5 would bring more than a PSA 8. The only case where I could see a possibility of increase in value would be a 9.5 vs. a 9, and even that's not guranteed. Of course I have no real data to back this up because I'm too lazy to do a llittle research, so maybe I'm wrong. Who knows. I'm going to shut up now.

Lee

DaBigHurt

I heard from very reliable sources that they (those clowns across the street) grade trimmed cards. That kind of stuff will catch up to them, believe me!

As for competition being better for the hobby, I have to disagree with that. Competition to PSA is bad, because that means people are getting burned by other companies with the grading of trimmed cards. Collectors and newbies are given false hope that the cards they're buying that are "professionally graded" when in reality, those cards are most likely counterfeits or trimmed! That's BAD for the hobby! That will drive customers away and put the hobby in a negative light!

We should all support PSA because of all the good they've done for the hobby and do all we can to educate others in staying away from the GAIs, SGCs and BGSes of the world.

phreakydancin

RipublicaninMass

Maybe they are buying these cards as PSA 8's, sending them to GAi for the 8.5, then selling them on the premise that they could be upgrade to a PSA 9 during a crossover. That might bring more attention to a GAI card?? ..But only a true professional would use BGS...lol

Ruthfan

First of all I would like to say to the posters on here that says GAI grades trimmed cards let's see the proof. If you are going to spew something like that at least have something to back it up. I like GAI and PSA, but you seem to have so many PSA kiss a$$es on here its disgusting.

jrdolan

dabighurt -- the comic relief is greatly appreciated.

ruthfan -- if you mentally add "yeah, right" at the end of dbh's posts, as he is too subtle to do himself, they make a lot more sense.

stevek

<<< As for competition being better...I have to disagree with that. >>>

DaBigHurt - You have just rescinded hundreds of years of successful economic theory. Monopolies don't work for the benefit of society and that's why, except in special cases mostly dealing with government, monopolies are illegal.

As for GAI - I've been looking to upgrade my 57 Mantle (not with a 9 but I can dream can't I? - LOL) and here's an auction currently on ebay - Those top left and bottom left corners not trimmed? Sure looks to me like somebody at one time tried to "straighten out" a rough cut.


Link to ebay 1957 Mantle

RipublicaninMass

^That holder look stampered to me. GAI have a round top, what the hell is that thing?

Stingray

Must be the way he took those photographs, if you look at the 57 power hitters card both the top right and bottom left corners look squared off and not rounded.

Stingray

Lothar52

as far asthe 57 matnle is concerned..my psa 7 looks better...what a crock...10k for that card??RIDICULOUS


SEE LINK BELOW

Knuckles

That's a gorgeous 7.

calleocho

Goudeygold,

The funny thing about old PSA flips is that they were most likely graded by the head graders of GAI.

There have been quite a few posts about problems with GAI, a lot of them looked like growing pains but some really give you an idea of what kind of people are running that joint.

I dont think you would have any problems buying GAI as long as it has to do with authenticity, however if you are buying to cross to PSA, you might not do so well.

I personally think that those two guys leaving PSA has done wonders to the current level of affairs at PSA.

onlychild

<< <i>Has anyone dealt directly with them >>



Yes, several times. Been to their HQ. They are great, very professional and a pleasure to work with. Since I collect and don't sell too often I have crossed a few sets over and will continue to submit more.

Kevin

Fletch1750

I agree with one of the earlier posts why would somebody submit a 52 Topps Mantle to GAI in NM-MT 8??? Or more intersetingly to me whay would somebody submit a Clemente rookie GAI 9?. Check the scan out of the Clemente if you look closely at the top edge you can see the borders are sloping a potential sign of an alteration.

baseballfanatic

I dont buy into the conspiracy theory that GAI grades altered or trimmed cards. There was a post on here not too long ago about crossing a GAI card over in its case that came back "evidence of trimming", was cracked out of its case and passed the PSA test with flying colors. While I am hopping on no one card graders bandwagon, healthy competition between the big 3 (PSA, SGC and GAI, no Beckett because of too much manipulation of thier own cards and products) are good for the hobby. It would be good to see all of them tighten up the standards and use a universal grading system, but just remember an individuals own experience is just as good as the people that are hired to do the grading. What kind of credentials are on an application to be a card grader at any of these companies.............?

Knuckles

I think GAI is great for wax and BGS/GAI are great for modern cards.. their colorful holders suit them and their lack of vintage respect (grading sheet cut cards, possibly altered cards - color retouched etc..)

SGC is great for vintage and odd sized cards. 80's cards as well I suppose but for some reason I really like '69 cards and older in SGC holders best.

PSA is just great for everything except for odd sized cards..

I don't like seeing things like this, looks crappy not to mention the potential of damaging the card if bumped around a lot:

EagleEyeKid

If GAI grades trim, then BGS does too (I know most think they do) from what I've read
and have actually seen. Here's an interesting note. I just received my grades today from BGS
for another 10 cards I sent in. The 2 Parkhurst Retro Frolov and Zetterberg were both in GAI 9.5 holders.
I'll scan the cards with the GAI flips that I still have on Wednesday evening when I get my order back in my hands.
I also crack some GAI for my PSA order, but may be awhile before I get those back. Could be tomorrow;
could be another month for modern. I think the top 4 has had their share of trimmed cards that has slipped thru.
None of them are perfect; but if there is public perception that all they grade is trimmed, then that's a different story.

ItemID Set Name Player Final Grade
3781185 2003-04 Black Diamond Black Jiri Hudler 9.0
3781184 2002-03 Parkhurst Retro Alexander Frolov 9.5 (GAI 9.5 crack out)
3781183 2002-03 Parkhurst Retro Henrik Zetterberg 9.5 (GAI 9.5 crack out)
3781182 2003-04 SP Authentic Tuomo Ruutu AU 9.5
3781181 2003-04 SP Authentic Jordin Tootoo AU 9.5
3781180 2003-04 SP Authentic Patrice Bergeron AU 9.5
3781179 2003-04 SP Authentic Kyle Wellwood 9.5
3781178 2003-04 SP Authentic Kyle Wellwood 9.5
3781177 2003-04 UD Trilogy Tuomo Ruutu 9.5
3781176 2003-04 UD Trilogy Tuomo Ruutu 9.5

knglerxt

<< <i>I heard from very reliable sources that they (those clowns across the street) grade trimmed cards. That kind of stuff will catch up to them, believe me!

As for competition being better for the hobby, I have to disagree with that. Competition to PSA is bad, because that means people are getting burned by other companies with the grading of trimmed cards. Collectors and newbies are given false hope that the cards they're buying that are "professionally graded" when in reality, those cards are most likely counterfeits or trimmed! That's BAD for the hobby! That will drive customers away and put the hobby in a negative light!

We should all support PSA because of all the good they've done for the hobby and do all we can to educate others in staying away from the GAIs, SGCs and BGSes of the world. >>




What's so wrong with SGC and GAI? I think as far as vintage cards are concerned SGC is as good or better than PSA. Plus, the market values
aren't inflated. Also, I think SGC's holders look better than PSA's. I think I'm going to stick to SGC, GAI, and BGS from now on. At least I can get an authentic, fairly graded card that won't break my bank account.

Southerncards

All of you SGC naysayers are going to be in for quite a shock when SGC comes around and rocks your world in the near future.

"That's all I have to say about that" - Forrest Gump

Stingray

Ok, do you have some top secrect information about SGC? I have never bought any cards in their holders and have not researched them enough to make any negative comments about them. I just started buying PSA, because I believe that overall in the collecting world they had the best rep. and not that these are necessarily an investment gave me the best protection for future sales.

Stingray

Knuckles

I wish SGC would authenticate/slab autographed items like index cards etc..




<< <i>What's so wrong with SGC and GAI? >>


No one said there was anything wrong with SGC.. in this thread anyway.

jrdolan

<< <i>If GAI grades trim, then BGS does too (I know most think they do) from what I've read
and have actually seen. >>



I do not think GAI grades trimmed cards (any more than the very few that PSA or SGC does by accident). I do think PSA tends to slap an "Evid. Trimming" or "M/G" sticker on cards in GAI holders as a matter of principle. Just crack it out and resubmit raw to see for yourself.

I do think Beckett is much more lax than the Big Three about trimmed cards and cards cut from sheets in the aftermarket -- part of the reason for the popularity of BGS.

No offense to anyone who's been receiving BGS 9.5's lately, but I also think that is now Beckett's usual grade for modern. As a high-volume BGS submitter commented to me, it's almost like a switch was flipped sometime during the winter. BGS 9.5 went from rare to the norm.

End of off-topic Beckett rant.

Southerncards

I dont have any top secret info. I've just been doing this for 18 years and can tell you that quality wise, SGC wins hands down. GAI does a nice job but my money is on SGC.