Fleer R.I.P.

joestalin

My predictions were right. You will be hearing the news sometime this week. If you are sitting on any redemptions this would be a good
time to sell as they will be worthless very soon. Let this be a lesson to the others, you can only have poor customer service for so long before
it bites you back.

Kevin

MajorDanby

is it a buyout?

joestalin

nobody wants it

JS

baseballfanatic

What will happen to all those wax packs strewn all over the floors of Kmart and Target........?

charliehustle14

I think Fleer should be bought out by Topps....The new company could be called "Flopps"!




Ah...perhaps I'll finally burn my stacks of '81 Fleer Joe Charboneaus and '83 Fleer Ron Kittles...

kuhlmann

This is just a start.. more will follow.

halosfan

Where did you hear this ... or is this wishfull thinking?

brianwintersfan

Seems to be true.A well respected source talked to the VP of Fleer today.They were not bought out and the announcement will be coming next week.Word is that they laid off 80% of their workers today and are not answering the phone or fax!

jrdolan

I'm sorry to see any part of our hobby go belly-up. But there is certainly enough modern material being printed to wallpaper the bedrooms of every teenage collector in America, so maybe that's the silver lining ... less wallpaper.

envoy98

I hate Fleer. Period. Their products rarely change (Ultra and Showcase have looked almost identical for 7 years). Their redemptions outnumber they're base cards. Their customer service is absolutely awful! Good riddance I say.

brianwintersfan

The only bad thing is all those people with nice auto redemptions that will never see them! I agree that there is way too much product and I think this is only the beginning.

Carew29

I pretty much stopped buying any new products after 1987. Hey, maybe as a farewell from Fleer you can win a 1/1 patch of some employee's pink slip.

bjork73

Hmmmmmm... well, looks like my two yet-to-be-sent-in redemptions aren't worth sending in... guess I should be glad I didn't spend too much on the boxes. UD, Playoff, or Topps might step in and be charitable with Fleer's redemptions; ironically, wasn't it Fleer that gave away autographs for Score Board's redemptions when the latter went under?

CDsNuts

Who would have thought that a company that came up with Fleer Focus would go under? I think that might be tied with Topps Lazer for the biggest waste of paper and computer technology ever.

Lee

phreakydancin

<< <i>I think Fleer should be bought out by Topps....The new company could be called "Flopps"! >>

Or "Teers"

gregm13

It's funny - I just received my David Carr redemption from Fleer that I've been waiting on for over a year. Good timing I guess. I think the redemption process is almost like a pyramid scheme - when the shell collapses the people at the bottom end up with nothing. It's sad that many people spent good money and their redemption cards might be worthless....sad.

Regards,

Greg M.

Axtell

There needs to be some paring down of product...there is just waaay too much stuff being pushed out the doors with little to no regard for quality product.

Stone193

I find this interesting...I don't like to see a big company go but there is too much product - unfortunately someone will step in and take the licenses.

For those who don't go back to 89 era - card sales around 1991-2 time frame reached in the billion dollar range with more and more people buying cases of product hoping to "cash in." Once people realized the stuff was over-produced, the bottom started to fall out. I'm thinking now, the industry is more in the 400 million gross which is way down and the product prices have inflated - which means they are probably making even less.

I hear all kinds of frustration about not being able to keep up with all the product - I think as one gets more into the hobby - they become more discriminating and that concept is less bothersome.
I collect only what I like - modern and vintage are both on my shelf.

mike

ctsoxfan

If this is true, it is a bit sad - they have had a few nice products recently. But, we do need a drastic reduction in the amount of modern cards produced every year - this might inspire the other companies to produce better products with better service to customers (hello, UD?).

pandrews

<< <i>
I collect only what I like - modern and vintage are both on my shelf.

mike >>



true dat..

gregm13

UD is brutal. I've been waiting for a Randy Moss auto'd jersey #'d to 50 for 1 1/2 years. I've asked three times for a replacement but - nothing!!!

Greg M.

Lothar52

.............and how do we know for sure fleer is going under?? im just curious and would love to see proof before i start celebrating.....who is hosting the "DING DONG THE FLEER IS DEAD!" party???

Loth

just to let everyone know though..if fleer quit tomorrow and was transported to another dimension in time and space...we still all have unopened material from the last 20 years that we will be opening for the next 60!!!!

WarHoundR69

Kinda ironic. Fleer is the company that originally sued Topps & broke their baseball card monopoly, then Donruss just walked in the door Fleer opened.

jrdolan

<< <i>just to let everyone know though..if fleer quit tomorrow and was transported to another dimension in time and space...we still all have unopened material from the last 20 years that we will be opening for the next 60!!!! >>


So true. There are warehouses packed to the rafters with unopened 1980s, 1990s, and 2000s material -- enough to keep DSL and 4SC cranking out PSA 10s until the sun goes nova.

Since I like things nice and orderly, I long for the simple days when Topps and Bowman were fighting over Mickey Mantle and Ted Williams. I don't like monopolies in principle, but it sure made it easy on collectors when Topps won the battle in 1956. These days, when a player has dozens of rookie cards (Pujols has 40!), what in heck's a kid gonna do?

Not only are there countless sets, but there are countless parallels and variations within sets. They change the color of the reverse, they slightly change the color and design of the front. they change the color ink on the auto, they atomicize and refractorize -- all designed to make completists buy more boxes and packs. So what's happening to the 90% of the cards that serve merely as filler around the "valuable" cards that kids (and grownups) are busting packs to find? Are they filling up closets across America? Are they finding their way into the waste stream? Are they used as kindling?

Paring down is part of the natural selection process, and a good thing. I don't like seeing businesses fail, but we probably need several more large card manufacturers to fold or consolidate, for the good of the hobby. We only have so many trees. And so many warehouses.

BigRedMachine

<< <i>These days, when a player has dozens of rookie cards (Pujols has 40!), what in heck's a kid gonna do?
>>



jrdolan, i agree with everything you've said except the above line. Pujols' bowman chrome rookie is numbered so low, and went up to $1800.00 this month. So what's a kid gonna do? Go without obviously.

I agree cards are very overproduced and I haven't bought anything from fleer in ages (I don't know why I just never liked the look or my luck at pulling cards from their boxes so I swore them off). But I do think we need at least a handful of low end examples of cards so younger and less financially powerful collectors can enjoy the same things we all do about collecting. So I think it's okay you can still find a Pujols rookie for $20. And I'm afraid if there was only one card company again, that wouldn't be the case.

jrdolan

A kid has to do without the limited $1800 Pujols, obviously, unless it was in one of the boxes he brought home from Wal-Mart four years ago. But as you point out, there are so many different Pujols rookies that he can still buy a $20 one that was mass produced.

I just think it wouldn't be so bad if Pujols had only 25 different rookie cards. His 2001 issues could be a registry set on their own!

Lothar52

APart from the following sets.....

1999 Fleer Mystique (all sports)
1999 Fleer Focus (football)
1999 Fleer Showcase (football)
1998 and 1999 Ultra Football
2000 Fleer Tradition Baseball

........there recent product has been ABSOLUTE CrApOla!! I think I had subscribed to beckett magazine and was not a part of these boards back then, if they even existed. So beckett was the only real connection and hobby news. They gave the the award for best new product to Fleer for both Mystique and Focus........and i spent so much damn money on there stuff that year ill never forgive myself....EVER. DAMN YOU Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Ricky Williams and Cade McNown!!!!!!!!!!!

Buccaneer

jrdolan, I would offer a slightly different view on going back to the simple days. We can't have a monopoly else we will have the poor quality of the 1970s. What I would prefer to see (for the kids) is to have many card companies - but only one major product from each. That way a kid can choose their preferred brand and the companies will strive to put out their best product. Also, every one will know which card will be the {company name}'s RC. And it will make the regular set (or building a set) more meaningful. This means no gimmick sets, no inserts, and no super-duper shiny sh!t cards.

ctsoxfan

Of course, this debate can take many different turns (i.e. what is wrong with the modern card industry?)...I would like to see less of a reliance on autograph / game-used "lottery" boxes, and a return to just card and set collecting. But, I don't think this will be easy. Kids today basically throw away the base cards from most sets, looking for the high dollar insert. How long can that survive?

By the way, the Fleer website has the look of a company still rolling on - product release dates and all. This may not mean anything, but I find it odd...

Lothar52

Once again.....how do we know Fleer is going under????

loth

kuhlmann

loth bc Js said so!!! and i have been hearing it for a year when i was in the business. you have to see the distributors around here.. 3 years ago i would go down there and they would be moving boxes like crazy. now they have tons i mean tons of boxes just sitting on there shelves.

tyhey still move good product like heritage. but stuff like timeless treasures 3 years ago you couldnt touch it without a preorder now they have like 10 cases just sitting there and the price is droping.

softparade

I am the proud owner of two 1999 Fleer Tradition Factory sets. I was up late one night and here they popped up on qvc or some tv shop site. Never buy cards when you are tired

Anyway, ctsox is right, the website looks like business as usual.

Lothar52

they just signed hank aaron to an auto deal..WONDERFUL...no more HANK in Heritage........they need to buy mickey sigs and cut them out..put them on cards in heritage..come on!!!

loth

gemint

<< <i>

<< <i>These days, when a player has dozens of rookie cards (Pujols has 40!), what in heck's a kid gonna do?
>>



jrdolan, i agree with everything you've said except the above line. Pujols' bowman chrome rookie is numbered so low, and went up to $1800.00 this month. So what's a kid gonna do? Go without obviously.

I agree cards are very overproduced and I haven't bought anything from fleer in ages (I don't know why I just never liked the look or my luck at pulling cards from their boxes so I swore them off). But I do think we need at least a handful of low end examples of cards so younger and less financially powerful collectors can enjoy the same things we all do about collecting. So I think it's okay you can still find a Pujols rookie for $20. And I'm afraid if there was only one card company again, that wouldn't be the case. >>



It's amazing to me that modern cards still pull in this kind of $. Is there a single modern card that has shown continued growth in value over more than a few year period when the player is hot? I can't. Jordon, Tiger, Griffey, McGwire. All have seen their heyday and then dipped when they weren't the hottest collectable of the day. Perhaps Lemiux or Gretzky RC's, particularly OPC's, may be the rare exception but I haven't followed that market very closely.

Lothar52

yankeeno7

I just want to see ONE company get the balls to produce Pete Rose signature and game used cards! Why isnt he included in all these sets? Is it because they are unable to come to terms on a contract with Rose? Is it because MLB has a say in what the card companies can produce with MLB logos? I can't see how that would be the case when there are Shoeless Joe Jackson cards out there.
Anyone have any insight to this?
I would be happy if it was just Topps again and have the packs loaded with autographed cards and game used. I dont care what they are worth...but they would be a blast to collect Until then, I'll take my 1800 bucks someone else would use to buy a Pujols rookie and buy myself a nice Mantle or even a Goudey Gehrig!

eadams24

A little history as we say goodbye...

The story of Fleer Trading Cards dates back to 1849 when Frank H. Fleer began his bubble gum business. In 1906, Fleer's first attempt at bubble gum was called Blibber-Blubber. After many versions of Blibber-Blubber were tested, a young employee in 1928 founded Dubble Bubble, Fleer's ultimate staple in the bubble gum industry.

After success in bubble gum, Fleer decided it was time to begin producing trading cards. In 1923, Fleer created its first "trading card," 120 "famous pictures" (referred to as W515) packed with every 5-cent pack of Fleer's Bobs & Fruit Hearts. Babe Ruth's picture was among the stars, but because the set is so rare, no one knows all of the players who were included in the set. In 1935, Fleer packaged a Cops & Robbers trading card set with bubble gum. Fleer's first complete entry into the baseball card industry was the popular 80-card 1959 Ted Williams set followed by Baseball and Football Greats from 1960-63. The first complete professional basketball card set was Fleer's 1961 set.

Starting in 1995, Fleer acquired SkyBox International, forming Fleer/SkyBox International, which is currently known as Fleer Trading Cards. In February 1999, Fleer was bought by a partnership formed by Alex and his son Roger Grass.

PenguinContact

Topps would be the best company to buy them out. They could revamp a few products, and could also benefit from the resources fleer leaves behind. Which is not much but can be beneficial. Skybox/Fleer could help Topps get on top of the Football and Basketball divisions.

ndleo

If this is true, I expect a ton of Fleer stuff to hit the market as the company closes down operations.

As for customer service, Topps is #1, Fleer a distant second and Upper Deck not even registering. I can't tell you how many high dollar redemptions from UD have been replace with junk.

OSClabs

...waiting for a 2004 Fleer redemption card of John Elway (Autograph #ed/15) for over 6 months. Customer service has been vague about the status. Uh oh.

goudeygold

finally some of this oversaturation may be coming to an end. pujols may have 40 RCs but lets not forget Icheros 380 RCs!! I was checking someones past buying history the other day and they had won 8 yankee auto cards from some yankee history packs or something for like 15 bucks. If that isn't proof of the auto craze buring out, I don't know what is. this will be one small step in the right direction, but like it was said before we will still be drowning in the crap for decades to come even if ALL presses stopped.

GG

Buccaneer

GG, but don't forget that in 2025, today's crap will be 20 yrs old. Think about it, 20 YRS OLD!!!!!

AkbarClone

Ichiro has 49 rookie cards.

Lothar52

if topps bought out fleer..i would hope they would simply make fleer basketball cards and drop every other damn product they have...meanwhile topps could stop making topps basketball cards and just do baseball and football....who knows...

when is this going to happen?? PLEASE GOD SOON!!!

loth

ctsoxfan

Again - not saying this isn't true, but where's the proof? Rumor is one thing, but who can link to some facts about Fleer closing shop?

Axtell

They aren't a publicly traded company, so it's very difficult to attain really any information regarding their financial status.

However, I find it hard to believe that a major name like Fleer would close up shop...there would have to be some company that would be willing to buy the name...even if they don't hold any exclusive names, the Fleer name has a long, long history and would be worth a few pennies on the dollar just for that.

brianwintersfan

<< <i>Rumor is one thing, but who can link to some facts about Fleer closing shop? >>



All I can say is that someone I have faith in talked to the VP of the Fleer the other day.He said Donruss did not buy them out and that a major announcement would be coming next week.I mean it seems strange that they aren't answering their phones or fax anymore isn't it??
Maybe a buyout or maybe they are going off into the sunset.We will find out for sure soon.

ndleo

Declaring bankruptcy does not necessarily mean that the Fleer name is gone. However it will be a rough ride for people waiting on redemptions (goodbye to my Tatum Bell auto) and for dealers with deposits on new products.

I'm not really surprised. The overall card market has shrunk every year since the peak from 1987-1992. Topps is financially in good shape even though the sales are sliding. I wonder about Upper Deck. I still can't believe that they sell enough product to pay for all those contracts they kick out. I recall that they gave Tiger around $1m per year for the upcoming golf craze. Now I don't think they sell $1m worth of golf cards per year.

goudeygold

There was an old post that listed every ichero RC form his rookie year and it was nearly 400 cards. Do a archive search or maybe somone can post the link.

Either way, even if it were 49, thats still way too many.

doesn't matter though, just clarifying my point.

fleer won't be missed, let em die if indeed they are...

GG

AkbarClone

I did look at the post you mentioned. It clearly pointed out that of the hundreds of Ichiro cards produced during that year, only 49 are officially rookie cards. Parallels, insert sets, league leader cards, etc. do not count as rookie cards. We still get your point, I was just clarifying the number since it had been a topic of discussion in the recent past.

goudeygold

I stand corrected then. 49 official RCs, BUT 380+ different Ichero cards from his "rookie" year.

GG