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OT, way, way OT, but, because of . . .
Mac53
Posts: 805 ✭
. . . Jane Fonda's conduct in North Vietnam while we were at war with that country (and while that country held [and were torturing] our soldiers as POWs), I refuse to spend money on that movie of hers. Same goes for my wife and child.
"Charlie, here comes the deuce. And when you speak of me, speak well."
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Ed
<< <i> Like how am I ever going to afford a PSA 9 American Beauties Set?
Ed
Vietman 66 thru 68. 25th Infantry Div out of Hawaii. >>
Lofty ambition, Ed. I've managed to pull two straight 9s into my set, but those low pops are pulling down 4 figures.
I refuse to spend money on that movie of hers. Same goes for my wife and child.
I understand why you wouldn't want to spend money on a movie, but don't you think not spending money on your wife and child is a bit extreme?
"All evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
First of all, thank you for your service. I honor you. I was, not exactly an evader, but more of a waiter (draft number 364, if you can believe that). I did not serve, I do not pretend that I can speak with the authority of one who did. So, what I have to say, I realize, shouldn't be heard as clearly as what you have to say. And, God bless you for your ability to forgive. I don't have that capacity. No matter how I felt at the time, or at any time, if I had been given a note which said "Help us, we are being tortured," I could not harbor the kind of cruelty it must take to give that note to the torturers. I certainly understand confusion over that war (I recommend "No More Vietnams" by Richard M. Nixon to help understand it), but in my humble opinion, Jane's actions went beyond confusion, beyond politics, beyond anger, and even beyond cruelty. I cannot get over it, I need help. When I was a kid, we had to read a story called "Man Without a Country." Its lesson was clear. Even if Jane didn't read that, she should understand that a cry for help from the helpless should never be met with even more cruelty. And yet, here she is, rich and popular. It grates. Maybe we should move this over to the Open Forum. And now, I shall go punch a hole in the wall.
<< <i>There are too many other things in the world to be concerned about >>
amen.
<< <i>Like how am I ever going to afford a PSA 9 American Beauties Set? >>
double amen
<< <i>f I had been given a note which said "Help us, we are being tortured," I could not harbor the kind of cruelty it must take to give that note to the torturers. >>
There has been a lot written about her conduct while visiting Hanoi. Everything I have read suggests she never handed over notes that were given to her by prisoners. She did a lot of other things I don't agree with but I don't think she ever did this.
From Urban Legends Website
Claim: Fonda betrayed POWs by turning over slips of paper they gave her to their captors. POWs were beaten and died as a result.
Status: FALSE.
"It's a figment of somebody's imagination," says Ret. Col. Larry Carrigan, whom I reached by phone at his home in Arizona. Carrigan, who was shot down over North Vietnam in 1967, says he has no idea why this story was attributed to him. "I never met Jane Fonda," he told me. It goes without saying he never handed her a secret message.
He said he did see Jane Fonda once while he was a POW – on film. The occasion was a night when Carrigan and the other 80 or so men he was interned with were called out into the prison courtyard – "the first time we'd been outside under the stars in 5 or 6 years." As the men stood there wondering what was in store for them, a movie projector began whirring behind them. Their captors were showing them footage of Fonda's 1972 visit to Hanoi.
<< <i>There's no disputing that Jane Fonda toured North Vietnam, propagandized on behalf of the communists, and participated in an orchestrated "press conference" with American POWs in 1972. There's no denying that she defamed POWs by whitewashing the Viet Cong's treatment of them and later calling them liars when they spoke out. >>
Well, how much more do you need? What would you call her? A patriot? Are you going to see her movie?
Here's one of my boats!
And here I am on a bus, waiting to go to Fort Dix! I was one of the last guys around on active duty to have served in both Vietnam and Desert Storm.
The best rock I listened to came from Hanoi Hannah - Vietnams equivalent of Tokyo Rose. There's nothing more amusing than listening to the Ventures with HH in the background telling us to go home, Jody's got your girlfriend, Jody's got your cadillac...
<< <i>Stone!! You served in 'Nam? God bless you, too!! >>
Was airborne, air assault, aviation (crew member) and was damn good at KP and cleaning the latrine!!
I'm working here in San Antonio and don't have a complainy in the world worth talking about.
I think collecting stuff is the best hobby in the world and my other passion which I have posted on occasion is my love of music and playing in bands.
Here's me with my band while stationed in Turkey - it was great! We got to travel and play for guys all over the place and also for college kids in Turkey!
Thanx for letting me share some pics and memories!!!
mike
<< <i>. . . Jane Fonda's conduct in North Vietnam while we were at war with that country (and while that country held [and were torturing] our soldiers as POWs), I refuse to spend money on that movie of hers. Same goes for my wife and child. >>
She was young and made a mistake...you weren't even there yet you feel the need to carry a grudge based on half-facts and urban legends 30 years later?
I won't be going to see the movie either, simply because J-Lo is an awful 'actress' (and I use that word with her very loosely).
I am not going to tell you how to feel Mac, but I'd suggest (a) learning all the truths about what really happened in Vietnam regarding her and (b) taking on bigger causes than boycotting an actress who has admitted her mistake.
<< <i>Well, how much more do you need? What would you call her? A patriot? Are you going to see her movie? >>
I don't need anything else to form an opinion of her. I don't know what I'd call her but it wouldn't be a patriot.
I won't be going to see her movie. Not because of her political stance but because it looks like a horrible movie. If I boycotted every movie, concert, baseball game etc becuase of the participants political stances I wouldn't see much.
I think she has the right to do whatever she wants as long as she doesn't break any laws. People can form their own opinions of her based on her actions. She'll never live these actions down and rightly so.
I guess my main point is that people should get all the facts before they decide to take any action.
As I stated in my original post she did a lot of other things I don't agree with, turning over pieces of paper from POW's wasn't one of them.
Criticize her for what she did, not what she didn't do.
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<< <i>Not much to say - was enlisted first, then an infantry officer and then a rear echelon scum type till I retired.
Was airborne,... >>
ALL THE WAY!
<< <i>Stone. I am blown away!! Don't hold back--I want to see a resume!!!! It looks like a guitar!! You can play guitar?!?!?!?! There are depths to to the Stonemeister!! Sorry . . . Bushmills was on sale tonight at Ralphs (it's a SoCal thing). >>
bet you cant guess his favorite baseball team..
The flic with Lopez and Fonda is by my assessment a "chick flic" - why? I was there today with the wife - I hate going to the movies and am trying to be a better friend to my wife and went with her - I will honestly say I like JLo and agree that she could hone her skills - the movie "Shall We Dance" was a bit better from an acting point of view IMO.
My grade on the movie? C to C+ and I would wait till it comes to HBO unless you are like me and was repaying a debt. I have been learning from "Ray" what not to do!
mike
"Mike McGrath, President of NAM-POWs, also stepped forward to disclaim the story:
Please excuse the generic response, but I have been swamped with so many e-mails on the subject of the Jane Fonda article (Carrigan, Driscoll, strips of paper, torture and deaths of POWs, etc.) that I have to resort to this pre-scripted rebuttal. The truth is that most of this never happened. This is a hoax story placed on the internet by unknown Fonda haters. No one knows who initiated the story. Please assist by not propagating the story. Fonda did enough bad things to assure her a correct place in the garbage dumps of history. We don't want to be party to false stories, which could be used as an excuse that her real actions didn't really happen either. I have spoken with all the parties named: Carrigan, Driscoll, et al. They all state that this particular internet story is a hoax and they wish to disassociate their names from the false story."
<< <i>Fonda did enough bad things to assure her a correct place in the garbage dumps of history. >>
So, Ax, old friend, you be going to see her movie or not?
I think life is far too short to get hung up on things someone you never met and had no affect on your life. I think perhaps maybe take that anger and direct it at a more viable source (name your cause: hunger, poverty, big brothers, etc.)
It's widely known that her appearances in Vietnam were little more than propoganda, and no POWs were affected by her appearance there.
<< <i>Already stated I won't be seeing it, but not because of political beliefs but because this movie looks bad.
I think life is far too short to get hung up on things someone you never met and had no affect on your life. I think perhaps maybe take that anger and direct it at a more viable source (name your cause: hunger, poverty, big brothers, etc.)
It's widely known that her appearances in Vietnam were little more than propoganda, and no POWs were affected by her appearance there. >>
Ax
I'll drink to that! I was much more annoyed by "black marketeers" who were stealing our supplies and selling tooth paste back to us at 10 times what it was worth! It's pretty sorry when you have to send home for stuff like that!
mike
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Just had to bring this pic back up - too cool. Notice the wrist bands to catch the sweat off those flying fingers!!
"All evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
<< <i>Just had to bring this pic back up - too cool. Notice the wrist bands to catch the sweat off those flying fingers!! >>
Or could it be arthritis?
"If I say it's safe to surf this beach soldier, it's safe to surf this beach!"
<< <i>This scene reminds me of a quote from Apocalypse Now -
"If I say it's safe to surf this beach soldier, it's safe to surf this beach!"
Keith
We also had boats called 'boston whalers' that belonged to the navy - they were very fast and agile compared to those LCM's in the pic (also called "Mike" boats - just coincidence) - let's just say, we had good days and bad days on them!
The surf was really something - this country was a tropical paradise - hard to believe.
mike