1968 Nolan Ryan

cgcmgr

I purchased a Nolan Ryan Rookie card off od Ebay sometime last year (I don't recall what I paid). It is graded by the grading company PRO. I've read a lot about these secondary grading services and was wondering if I should send it in to PSA to be graded. Basically I'm starting to get worried that this card may not be legit. Do you guys know if there is a way to check the certificate # on the PRO website like you can on PSA and Beckett? Do you think I should send it to PSA? If I send it in, should I send it in in the PRO holder or out of the holder?

JonB

Checking the cert number really won't do you any good. More than likely the card is trimmed and PSA won't slab it.

cgcmgr

Any reason why you think the card is trimmed? Not saying it's not, just would like to know why you're leaning that way.

lostdart58

Probably 99 % of cards that are graded by PRO are trimmed.

cgcmgr

Thanks,

Now I know. So I guess it's safe to say I should leave it alone and not send it to PSA.

Thanks Guys.

redsoxcollector

My experience with 3rd party graders - last fall on eBay I bought nine 1984 Clemens Pawtucket minor lg cards, all graded Gem Elite 10. Sent them off to PSA and all 9 came back as counterfeits. Apparently I was not the only one, because around the same time, Gem put a disclaimer on their web site as follows:

"GEM Grading Services Inc. grades the quality of actual sportscard paper stock.
Providing authentication is challenging and not guaranteed due to improved computerized printing techniques.
Size requirements for sportscards are the standard published size plus or minus 3 mm."

Translation - Gem cheerfully grades counterfeits and trimmed cards.

The sellers were shaqfu1, inserts4collectors, and sportscardzz, aka RedZone. All but inserts4collectors refunded me when I threatened further action. It is interesting to note that these 3 dealers seem to sell Gem graded cards exclusively...

Of course, you have to ask yourself - if a card is really legit, and worthy of a high grade, why on earth would anyone send it to a grader like Gem, Pro, Mint, etc when a card graded 7 or 8 by PSA or Beckett will bring a lot more than a 10 from the others.

My lesson is learned, PSA, Beckett, and SGC only for me.

Stone193

<< <i>Thanks,

Now I know. So I guess it's safe to say I should leave it alone and not send it to PSA.

Thanks Guys. >>


cgc
Can you provide us with a good scan of the card? Also, can you take the time to measure the card to a 1/32"? This might help.

If it's a 68T card...my best guess? Trimmed.

mike

baseballfanatic

Every member of this board knows that Gem and PRO grading are nothing but a scam for whoever owns the companies. The grades assigned to the cards hold absolutely ZERO weight in the collecting community. I cant believe the sellers refunded your money. I know that you had to have paid a fraction of the price because they were graded by GEM. If they all came back PSA 9 or 10 everything would have been fine, but every collector on this board would hoard them up and cross them over if they were legit cards. We would all like to pay 25% of SMR for a mint card and submit it to PSA and quadruple our money, but it just doesnt work like that. You are EXTREMELY lucky you were refunded.............

baseballfanatic

<< <i>My experience with 3rd party graders - last fall on eBay I bought nine 1984 Clemens Pawtucket minor lg cards, all graded Gem Elite 10. Sent them off to PSA and all 9 came back as counterfeits. Apparently I was not the only one, because around the same time, Gem put a disclaimer on their web site as follows:

"GEM Grading Services Inc. grades the quality of actual sportscard paper stock.
Providing authentication is challenging and not guaranteed due to improved computerized printing techniques.
Size requirements for sportscards are the standard published size plus or minus 3 mm."

Translation - Gem cheerfully grades counterfeits and trimmed cards.

The sellers were shaqfu1, inserts4collectors, and sportscardzz, aka RedZone. All but inserts4collectors refunded me when I threatened further action. It is interesting to note that these 3 dealers seem to sell Gem graded cards exclusively...

Of course, you have to ask yourself - if a card is really legit, and worthy of a high grade, why on earth would anyone send it to a grader like Gem, Pro, Mint, etc when a card graded 7 or 8 by PSA or Beckett will bring a lot more than a 10 from the others.

My lesson is learned, PSA, Beckett, and SGC only for me. >>





Sorry if there was any confusion but my above post was for redsox and not the original poster...

cgcmgr

I'll try to get a scan on tonight. I'll also measure for you guys.

cgcmgr

Not to sure how to get my scan on here, but here's the measurements.


2.5" x 3 15/32". Looks like it was trimmed. I have to say the card looks really nice though. I even held a few cards from that year next to it and you can see it is shorter. I'd still like to post the scan so you guys can see if someone will tell me how.

Chris

A761506

With PRO, there is a good chance that the card is at least authentic. Ryan's rookie is a highly counterfeited card, and even though PRO is worthless, they generally don't slab counterfeits.

You will not be able to get an accurate measurement of the card inside the case. Unless the card is badly trimmed, which would be pretty obvious, your best bet is to go ahead and break it out of the PRO holder. The PRO holder not only doesn't add value to the card, it actually retracts from it. After you crack it, then you can measure it and see if it's short. If it's proper dimensions, which is a slim chance, then go ahead and send it in to PSA. If it's trimmed, do the collecting world a favor and write trimmed on the back of the card, as the card is pretty much worthless.

One thing you should definitely not do is try to resell it after you know it's trimmed. A lot of people who have been scammed like that resort to that to try to recoup their losses and just pass the worthless card on to someone else.

lostdart58

<< <i>With PRO, there is a good chance that the card is at least authentic. Ryan's rookie is a highly counterfeited card, and even though PRO is worthless, they generally don't slab counterfeits.

You will not be able to get an accurate measurement of the card inside the case. Unless the card is badly trimmed, which would be pretty obvious, your best bet is to go ahead and break it out of the PRO holder. The PRO holder not only doesn't add value to the card, it actually retracts from it. After you crack it, then you can measure it and see if it's short. If it's proper dimensions, which is a slim chance, then go ahead and send it in to PSA. If it's trimmed, do the collecting world a favor and write trimmed on the back of the card, as the card is pretty much worthless.

One thing you should definitely not do is try to resell it after you know it's trimmed. A lot of people who have been scammed like that resort to that to try to recoup their losses and just pass the worthless card on to someone else. >>



I wouldn't agree that a trimmed card is worthless........it is worth alot less then a non-trimmed card..........but it is worth alot more then a card that has writing on the back of it.

Keep the card in the PRO case and when the time comes to sell it, let the potential buyers know that it is a trimmed card.

I have noticed that the resale price of PRO graded cards is certainly ALOT less then PSA cards which tells me that enough people realize that PRO stands for inferiior merchandise.

jrdolan

I could never figure out the logic of trimming a card and sending it to PRO.

Say you have an EX-MT Ryan rookie that would grade PSA 6. You ruin a perfectly respectable and valuable card by trimming it and sending it to PRO, which grades it 8. A PRO 8 Ryan will sell for considerably less than a PSA 6 because (almost) everyone knows it must be trimmed.

So why do it? What's the logic? Leave it alone! A PSA 6 Ryan rookie still has plenty of value.

ctsoxfan

<< <i>My experience with 3rd party graders - last fall on eBay I bought nine 1984 Clemens Pawtucket minor lg cards, all graded Gem Elite 10. Sent them off to PSA and all 9 came back as counterfeits. Apparently I was not the only one, because around the same time, Gem put a disclaimer on their web site as follows:

"GEM Grading Services Inc. grades the quality of actual sportscard paper stock.
Providing authentication is challenging and not guaranteed due to improved computerized printing techniques.
Size requirements for sportscards are the standard published size plus or minus 3 mm."

Translation - Gem cheerfully grades counterfeits and trimmed cards.

The sellers were shaqfu1, inserts4collectors, and sportscardzz, aka RedZone. All but inserts4collectors refunded me when I threatened further action. It is interesting to note that these 3 dealers seem to sell Gem graded cards exclusively...

Of course, you have to ask yourself - if a card is really legit, and worthy of a high grade, why on earth would anyone send it to a grader like Gem, Pro, Mint, etc when a card graded 7 or 8 by PSA or Beckett will bring a lot more than a 10 from the others.

My lesson is learned, PSA, Beckett, and SGC only for me. >>



Whoa - I freaked out for a minute and thought I changed my name! No one has ever used one of my icons before...

Stingray

I have never bought a PRO graded card, but when did they start getting the rep of grading trimmed cards? Did people start cracking them out and then sending them to PSA and getting them back as trimmed?

Stingray

ICE9

"The sellers were shaqfu1, inserts4collectors, and sportscardzz, aka RedZone. All but inserts4collectors refunded me when I threatened further action. It is interesting to note that these 3 dealers seem to sell Gem graded cards exclusively..."

That's interesting... shaqfu1 & RedZone are the two exclusive dealers selling the "newly discovered" (and authenticated by GAI) 1970, '71 and '72 twelve card "Grocery Cello" packs on eBay. hmmmm

Mike

lostdart58

<< <i>I have never bought a PRO graded card, but when did they start getting the rep of grading trimmed cards? Did people start cracking them out and then sending them to PSA and getting them back as trimmed?

Stingray >>



I have stated before in these forums that i own a PRO graded 8.5 1959 Mantle card. I do not have to send it to PSA to find out that it is trimmed........

......all I have to do is compare it to my other 59 Topps card to see that is is most definitily a smaller card!!

Brian48

An experiment with Pro

A pretty good read.

cgcmgr

I want to thank everyone who replied to my thread. So my card is trimmed. I already broke it out of its slab and plan on sending it to PSA with a bunch of other cards expecting it to come back trimmed. It would be nice if it came back graded, but I don't anticipated that. I guess I'll have to look for another good Ryan rookie. I have a PSA 4, but it doesn't compliment my set that nicely. I've been collecting for quite a long time, but never visited these message boards until recently. I've already learned a lot just by reading these posts. If my card comes back trimmed, I may just send it back to PRO to get graded again. It looks nicer in a PRO 9.5 slab rather than in a Toploader.

Brian48

I wouldn't waste the money in sending it back to Pro. You'd just be rewarding the trolls for doing such a irresponsible job. A trimmed Ryan rookie may not have any monetary value, but it'd look just as nice in a $2 acrylic holder. Despite it's altered conditioned, it's a still a very important card from a historical point of view.

redsoxcollector

<< <i>No one has ever used one of my icons before >>



Sorry, saw the logo and being a vintage Sox collector, I thought it was great.
If you want I will find another.