Swiss francs
F117ASR
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Hello darksiders, crazy prices on the light side and some curiosity has recently led me to search for a new series to collect. I orgininally wanted to collect Florins (up to 1887 then they turn ugly) but I may just settle for 1 . Since I am new to foreign coinage I would appreciate any and every piece of information and advice. What do you think of Swiss francs (1 or 2 franc pieces)? THanx!
Beware of the flying monkeys!
Aerospace Structures Engineer
Aerospace Structures Engineer
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<< <i>Hello darksiders, crazy prices on the light side and some curiosity has recently led me to search for a new series to collect. I orgininally wanted to collect Florins (up to 1887 then they turn ugly) but I may just settle for 1 . Since I am new to foreign coinage I would appreciate any and every piece of information and advice. What do you think of Swiss francs (1 or 2 franc pieces)? THanx! >>
With regards to Gothic Florins a good approach on these if you want to stick a set together would be an 1880s set.
1880-1887, nice short and sweet. But i am by nature a date collector so i can never ignore the date, which causes problems with extensive and complex serieses such as Gothic Florins. I once intended to collect a date run of those myself... i never did!
The only way i could escape the date collector in me was to go back to a time before dates.
Steve
<< <i>
1880-1887, nice short and sweet. But i am by nature a date collector so i can never ignore the date, which causes problems with extensive and complex serieses such as Gothic Florins. I once intended to collect a date run of those myself... i never did! >>
Interesting idea! I may just do both sets simulataneously.
<< <i> The Swiss francs are great. Don`t forget the half franc. The specimen strikes are truly beautiful. but the business strikes are very attractive also. The 1940`s - 60`s are not highly difficult to locate in gem grades and can be had for a modest amount of money. Before that, they are somewhat tougher to find in high grades and are somwhat more expensive. A board member here, our very own MacCrimmon is a Swiss specialist and a great person to deal with. >>
Thanx for the advice. Can someone tell me why there is a speciment and business strike, and what is the difference between the two in price and affordablilty.
<< <i> The Swiss coins you speak of are one of the favorites here on this board and you can't go wrong with them. There are 2 Francs, 1 Franc and 1/2 Franc coins all with the same design. In high mint state and specimen grades they are absolutely stunning. Below is my new PCGS SP67. >>
Beautiful pic Cladiator. It seems almost cameo. Is there such a thing such as PL and DMPL when it comes to these coins? How long has the series been running. I know it is a long time but that's all I know.
Aerospace Structures Engineer
Very long, it must be among the longest running series ever. It started in 1875 , previously there was the Seated type, another wonderful design.
Is there such a thing such as PL and DMPL when it comes to these coins?
I don't think so, but I'll leave the technical to Mac.Here are two that I got from him raw .
1951B half franc NGC MS67
1965B two francs NGC MS68 (!)
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Aerospace Structures Engineer
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<< <i>It seems almost cameo. Is there such a thing such as PL and DMPL when it comes to these coins? How long has the series been running. I know it is a long time but that's all I know. >>
Firstly, specimens! As to cameo and PL or DMPL:
Specimen strikes are most literally 'first strikes'. They were struck on burnished planchets from specially prepared dies. You will see some degree of die polish marks in the fields on all of the silver issues, and sometimes on the cu-ni or nickel and brass coinage.
Like Franklin halves.....GAAAAAACK!!, the first 5-10 'Specimen-strikes' would had heavily frosted devices and also were probably struck from more heavily polished blanks.....think of it as an unofficial ceremonial deal. So, technically coins within the true SP realm you will have coins with varying degrees of depth of field and cameo on the devices. Then you have the 'hybrids'.
This is where it can be tough for the novice because the mint at Bern just didn't discard the dies but they started striking coins for commerce from the just used erstabschlag dies. Erstabschlag, or EA is what you will see these coins referred to as in the auction catalogs or from a dealer list, etc.
The difference in the hybrids is that they will only be semi-PL in the fields....they will have a noticable different "WOW" look to them compared to the usual satin or frosty finish. The die polish marks may still be there but will not be as strong, and they will diminish completely after the next 2000-5000 strikes or so.
PCGS does not presently designate EA coins as CAM or DCAM; they just grade them into the category to which they fall, SP.
The 'Standing Helvetia' usually had full strikes in the head/bow area until the early 1950s. After that, the production numbers start increasing quite a bit, and I suspect they turned back the striking pressures resulting in mushier strikes. These weaker strikes are particularly prevalent in the 1960s until termination of the silver content coins.
The EA silver quoted in Krause is so far from accurate it's laughable. Money Trends is a much more accurate guide.
The 1/2 franc WWII issues quoted at $90 in Krause would be what you might expect to pay for a PCGS certified SP66 example. SP67 could range from about $100-110, and SP68 would set you back all of $130-140. For the 1 franc, add about $10-20 to these ranges, and for the 2 franc, add another $10-20 to the 1 franc prices. If you consider, each of these dates is thought to only have mintages in the 200-400 piece range, they're pretty cheap but I would only buy 67/68 grades. For the demand, the 64/65 coins are plentiful and are priced with only a slight discount to the 66-68 material. If you can buy 64/65s under $50, great, otherwise don't. The scarcer dates in EA will almost always sell at retail a good bit below Krause. For instance, Krause says $600 for a 1949 5 Franc specimen.....WRONG!! Pay that and you are BURIED! A PCGS graded SP67 would run about $450; I might sell one graded SP68 for $500 or so.....the usual chatter-marked William Tell dog (63-64) would not trade for over $200 wholesale in Swz. So, I ask, where'd they get $600?
Well, getting back to how long? Thumbs up to Dimitri on the silver. The other minor denoms have basically been the same since the late 1870s/1880s to date, except the bronze 1 and 2 rappen coins which were the same design from the beginning of the Confederation (1850) until the current design which changed in 1948. A last tidbit, the Swiss were the first to commercially strike pure nickel coins, the 20 rappens in 1881. Cheers.
As to business strikes, if you are buying these at Krause prices, you got a real deal or you have bought a 63 kinda coin. The Swiss prices the upper end stempelglanz considerably higher for all but the most common dates.