What to do with artificially red coppers?

SYRACUSIAN

Suppose you have a very rare and expensive 19th century unc copper that has been rejected by TPGs, as artificially toned. What next? Is there anything to do to make this coin certifiable?

Stork

Did you try ANACS? They certify problem coins, though I don't know their specific policy on AT/toning issues.


Cathy

newsman

I've heard that some people allow them to tone brown by putting them in a Wayte Raymond holder in the sun for awhile, but I'm not sure if PCGS or NGC will slab them that way.

ccrdragon

the only suggestion that I have is to put it into your pocket and carry it around for a couple of months.... you will lose some value, but it will also grade after that

SYRACUSIAN

Thanks to all the brave people who answered so far. It's a taboo subject and not everybody feels that he should share his experiences ,as it can be interpreted as a coin doctoring case. But sooner or later it happens to the majority of collectors, so why not share the tricks and/or costly lessons? Thanks for the few PMs I received on the subject as well.

lordmarcovan

You could retone it with a paste of Vaseline (petroleum jelly) and powdered sulfur.

Of course, this might not get it past a TPG. And I dunno if I would do it on something rare and valuable. (Not that the Vaseline treatment is harmful- I just would be reluctant to play around with a rarity.)

AuldFartte

Sit it in an old envelope, put it in a southerly facing window sill for a couple of months. I've seen old "cleaned" coins retone nicely like that ... perhaps it will work on yours, too.

lordmarcovan

That's probably a better suggestion than my faster Vaseline-and-sulfur method. Go at it gradually.

Sylvestius

Why slab it at all? Don't slab, problem solved.

SYRACUSIAN

Why slab it at all?




To be able to sell it at a decent price. The owner is a friend and I wanted to give him some advice.

Sylvestius

<< <i>Why slab it at all?


To be able to sell it at a decent price. The owner is a friend and I wanted to give him some advice. >>




I was just thinking of what would be most practical, selling it unslabbed and stating there was a problem but that it's rare nonetheless. Or trying to get it slabbed, some have already refused. I dunno much about slabbing companies but do any practice 'net grading' (the kind that will knock a clearly EF coin down to F because of cleaning, yes i know someone that does this and i just don't understand the bloke at all), which could get you alot less in the long run if the grade is far below the genuine grade of a problematic piece.

Plus it cost to get it graded anyhow doesn't it? You'd be losing the profits before you've even started.

SYRACUSIAN

Thank you Sylvestius, I appreciate it.


I dunno much about slabbing companies but do any practice 'net grading' (the kind that will knock a clearly EF coin down to F because of cleaning, yes i know someone that does this and i just don't understand the bloke at all),



As stork suggested, Anacs does just that. They will certify almost any problem coin and netgrade it accordingly. The thing to keep in mind with US grades, is that they basically refer to the value of the coin and not necessarily to its condition. So, in the example that you give, the grade would be EF details , net VF2O, meaning that technically,it's still an EF coin ,but with a problem that makes its value drop to low F-VF levels.

Plus it cost to get it graded anyhow doesn't it? You'd be losing the profits before you've even started.


Economy level is $14 per coin, in this case around 1% of its value, if it could get into an MS63BN slab. Note the B(row)N, which is why I asked how do these coins get redarkened and these kind people told me how, by responding here,or by PM.

Sylvestius

<< <i>Note the B(row)N, which is why I asked how do these coins get redarkened and these kind people told me how, by responding here,or by PM. >>




Hmm cunning, well it's worth a try i suppose.

I never think of coins on levels like this, i guess i'm just a buyer as i never think about selling them for a profit.

It also just goes to show how miles apart European methods and US methods really are, we'd just sell it raw as "EF (Cleaned)" and priced accordingly. And that's as complex as it gets on this side of the pond.

I seriously hope we don't adopt slabbing over here because i'd be disappointed to recieve a coin that i think is a problem free BN UNC to find it's been cleaned at some point and then retoned. I personally would prefer a coin doctored once to one doctored twice. Doctored not at all is better still.

MacCrimmon

Well, you are assuming that it really is artificially red....maybe it is not so. Are/were the TPGs aware of any special characteristics of the alloy of this coin, or is it really a pumpkin?