I wish I got DSL's grades
mintyfresh
Posts: 46
I you need any more evidence of PSA favoritism to large submitters check out the 1975 Topps lot that DSL has closing today. Most are PSA 9 NQ. Most are miscut, off-center, fish eyed, etc. There are a few legitimate 9's but the majority are no better than 8's or 7's. What a joke.
Always looking for High Grade Pete Rose @ Mint 1975 Topps
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If you don't think a card is worthy of a grade, don't buy it. It doesn't get any simpler.
Stingray
Stingray
*cracks knuckles*
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
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<< <i>Mr. Mcgee; don't get me angry! You wouldn't like it when I get angry!
*cracks knuckles* >>
if you dont think grading company's dont give special treatment to certain people your on CRACK!
Low end on the centering probably.
The bottom right corner looks a little shady. Some white showing and maybe a light touch. Of course corners are not mentioned in the "only one of the following minor flaws....." 9 criteria.
I would count on an 8 if in my submission.
Look at this PSA 9....utterly horrible!!! It's on the verge of being MC, in my opinion. I just received back an order of 1960's football commons and received my first 9's (1 1964 Topps and 2 1969 Topps). PSA has always been tough on vintage cards - how in the h*ll did this thing grade a 9? I have plenty of 1950's and 1960's football sitting in PSA 7 and PSA 8 slabs that look much better than this card.
Regards,
Greg M.
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Stingray
bottom line is, you cant "grade" anything on a card accurately, except centering, by looking at a damn scan..
Stingray
I TRIED TO WARN YOU PEOPLE BUT NOOOOOOOO...YOU WOULDN'T LISTEN!!
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
Here is what I believe happens. For the most part, the big submitters own card shops. I feel that they keep the high end 9 cards for their regular card shop customers and "get rid of" the low end 9 cards on ebay. Percentage wise, they are getting the exact same grades as anybody, but because they are selling their low end 9's on ebay, the perception is that they are getting grading preferences. The large card shops which I have been in that also sell on ebay, have nothing but high end graded cards in their shops which when seeing in person look outstanding. At least a low end graded card from a scan on ebay doesn't look as bad and so they can sell it easier on ebay than in their card shop. This isn't true for all dealers and all situations, but just explains the perception of certain dealers getting preferences. This perception I believe is not reality.
Steve
There has been an increasing number of these types of comments 'Man I wish I got grades like 4SC' or whoever, and it's pretty disconcerting. If you truly are that unhappy about it, why not write to PSA and voice your concerns?
Also, as someone else has said, just how much can you REALLY tell from a scan? You can't tell surface gloss, you can't get an overall eye appeal of a card without seeing it in person.
Now it's one thing if you purchased a card and it came and you were terribly disappointed...it's quite another to just rabble rouse and try to make noise is another.
1st & only point: if i owned a company & someone was spending say $5,000 a month. then i had someone spending $200. who would you give better service to?? if both people needed to get there package out by friday & i only could get one out, who do you think would get theres?
i'm sorry to tell you but life is nothing but a big business & i feel sorry for the people on here who don't think people get special treatment from psa. its SAD!!! when all over the world people get special treat ment. i submit alot to bgs & i know the service i get , everyone doesnt get!
please big hurt stop the nonsense! your only fooling yourself & its laughable!
look at this card and guess what? Its not DSL or 4SC
chew on this one
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
No, the sad thing is people who have no understanding of how successful businesses work and the realities of the marketplace, and then further show their ignorance by making naive comments.
<< <i>i submit alot to bgs & i know the service i get , everyone doesnt get!
please big hurt stop the nonsense! your only fooling yourself & its laughable! >>
I am laughing at your BGS comment
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>guys, if you submitted that many cards to PSA then you would get some 9's that are really 8's...it happens... >>
And you would get some 8s that are really nines.
It's funny that people think that because it's a bulk order the graders are ALWAYS going to grade up? Huh? How many times have you bought a 7 and thought 'wow, that could easily be an 8?'
It happens both ways, and because the graders are human, there are going to be variations.
If you are unhappy with the product, take it up with PSA. Coming here and complaining really isn't going to accomplish much, unless you think Joe O. is haning on every post.
<< <i>guys, if you submitted that many cards to PSA then you would get some 9's that are really 8's...it happens... >>
what ^he^ said
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>please big hurt stop the nonsense! your only fooling yourself & its laughable! >>
He's not the one being fooled.
I was ticked and sold off quite a few of them. Low and behold DSL was listing my SP authentic Vince Carter RC that got me a PSA 8 in a PSA 10 holder along with some other cards. They were easy to track because of the bloody serial number on the front of the card. Some people can say that PSA doesn't favour the larger submitter.....I think your a fool if you believe this or just plain blind.
All companies like large clients...BGS does the same crap with some dealers that are pulling off BGS 10 Pristines like they were easy.
But again, I am not saying PSA is perfect, and when you process millions of cards, a few are going to be off. But all in all, I have always been understanding why the cards I have submitted have received their grades, even after the initial shock of my first few submissions.
<< <i>I think it's a case of envy, honestly. These big time submitters must go though thousands and thousands of cards to come up with the best of the best, and that's all we see. We don't see the countless number of cards that must just be dumped (literally) because they weren't up to snuff. They obviously know what PSA is looking for when it comes to 10s and 9s, and they have their employees who are trained to look for these qualities submit them.
But again, I am not saying PSA is perfect, and when you process millions of cards, a few are going to be off. But all in all, I have always been understanding why the cards I have submitted have received their grades, even after the initial shock of my first few submissions. >>
denial is the 1st sign!
geeez, did it occur to anybody that you might just SUCK at scanning cards for grading? Now I'm not saying any particular person does suck. BUT, ya just might!
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
Does anyone know for sure that DSL submits all these cards for grading? How does one know that they didn't buy the cards already graded?
I have friends who are good sized dealers who wish the accusation were true.
mike
They submit at least a bulk majority of them. You can track the serial number runs for one. Also - I keep a pretty close eye on the changing population reports of 1955 Bowman and Mike Schmidt cards. They often have many of those up on Ebay pretty soon after they were graded. They may have some sort of contracted service with some people - but a large percentage of what I've watched them sell is sold very soon after the cards are actually graded - whether it was submitted by them or otherwise.
<< <i>Mike:
They submit at least a bulk majority of them. You can track the serial number runs for one. Also - I keep a pretty close eye on the changing population reports of 1955 Bowman and Mike Schmidt cards. They often have many of those up on Ebay pretty soon after they were graded. They may have some sort of contracted service with some people - but a large percentage of what I've watched them sell is sold very soon after the cards are actually graded - whether it was submitted by them or otherwise. >>
Marc
So, let's say they grade out 80% of their inventory - is there a prevailing assumption that they are getting the "bump" everytime? Has anyone ever presented concrete evidence that this is going on? I just wonder if this issue is ever going to be put to rest? I have heard reports that some have witnessed that GAI is offering a quid pro quo.
mike
When I've checked their auctions, I can't remember ever seeing newer cards - just mass produced modern stuff and vintage. Maybe someone else graded it and didn't want to list it themselves since it was serial numbered and had been listed publicly in a psa 8 holder? I'm sure there's a dealer in the Southeast who wishes he had consigned a certain Mark Prior card.
Even if overt favoritism doesn't exist, it's possible that there's some bias in the process. For example, if a 1000+ card order is dumped on a single grader, he may be more inclined to rush. Conversely, if the large orders are divided up among the graders and others are not, then they would get an equal distribution of graders, preventing a "grader of death" from seriously damaging a submission.
recently a respected member of the collecting community authored an eloquent, rational, non-confrontational letter to david hall. the content of the letter addressed a number of legitimate concerns. no reply from david hall......but he did comment on a photo of an obscure rock bands bass player. it was taken by many as a collective kick to the testes and an affirmation of PSA's arrogance.
i shredded my check for renewal to the collectors club and will never submit another card to PSA, i will still buy PSA slabs but will never directly contribute another nickel to their bottom line.
<< <i>Here is what I believe happens. For the most part, the big submitters own card shops. I feel that they keep the high end 9 cards for their regular card shop customers and "get rid of" the low end 9 cards on ebay. >>
Steve, that's a very interesting theory. I thought DSL and 4SC sold their cards only on eBay, so it may not apply to them. I could be wrong.
But I wonder if that's true about some card dealers with bricks-and-mortar stores: they put things on eBay that have been gathering dust in the display case. I sure have bought some cards on eBay for say $25 and the slab had a $95 price sticker on it. (They believed the amusing fiction printed in Beckett, you see.)
Favoritism to the mega-submitters? As dabighurt would say ... noooooooo, of course not. Anybody who thinks that has fisheyes!
<< <i>Low and behold DSL was listing my SP authentic Vince Carter RC that got me a PSA 8 in a PSA 10 holder along with some other cards. They were easy to track because of the bloody serial number on the front of the card.
When I've checked their auctions, I can't remember ever seeing newer cards - just mass produced modern stuff and vintage. Maybe someone else graded it and didn't want to list it themselves since it was serial numbered and had been listed publicly in a psa 8 holder? I'm sure there's a dealer in the Southeast who wishes he had consigned a certain Mark Prior card. >>
This was a few years back when dsl was grading modern cards. Trust me, I know the sp authentic carter rc, made a ton off of that freaking card. I was just so ticked off to see a PSA 8 become a PSA 10 in a matter of a few weeks. Was it magic that was performed on the card? And why the heck was the worst card in the batch (chipping and flaking on the edges) graded a 10 when I submitted?!?!?!
JR - I always highly respect your opinion and comments in this forum. But it just doesn't make sense for a company like PSA to show preference to anybody in grading. If this were really true, this would have already leaked out before, for instance from a disgruntled employee. Don't forget CU is involved as you know with coins, stamps, etc. - they're just not going to risk their business reputation to do this. If they did really show preference in grading, it would be foolish beyond belief. Their reputation would be ruined. PSA slabs, as a rule, get the highest prices in the marketplace - the reason for that is reputation despite the innuendos here. I call em as I see em - if there was real evidence to support this favoritism, I would change my mind. I'm not changing my mind because of the few scattered examples brought up here for instance because of the one serial numbered card that keeps being mentioned.
Steve
Stingray
I believe that after grading 75 PSA 10-worthy copies of 1989 Donruss Curt Schilling in a row, they may ease off on the remaining 25 in the stack and let a few 9-worthy cards pass as 10s. I even believe the mega-submitters may understand this and take advantage of it -- put a few 9's near the bottom of the stack in hopes of getting them through as 10s.
This is only speculation, of course. Who can prove what goes through a grader's mind after assigning 75 Gem Mint 10's in a row? Is he thinking, hmmm this whole stack is 10s, and lets his attention wander a bit on the rest? I dunno, but it seems very possible that is how some 9s end up in 10 holders.
Steve
despite, my jaded view of PSA i really don't think they are handing out preferential grades.....inconsistent grading, ducking tough questions, arrogance ? absofreakinglutely!!
btw,IMO, GAI is the master of friendly "bumps" and preferential grading to dealers.