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Should graders not be human?

MorrellManMorrellMan Posts: 3,238 ✭✭✭
in PSA Set Registry Forum
I certainly share the consternation of others who decry the non-consistency of graders; but isn't that human nature? Judges, umpires, building inspectors, college admissions officers - virtually anyone whose job it is to qualify an item (or person): although they all try to adhere to stated standards, there is a wide variance on how any individual will interpret and make calls. Did we really expect a grading service, made up of human being-type graders, to be any different?
Mark (amerbbcards)


"All evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

Comments

  • mikeschmidtmikeschmidt Posts: 5,756 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I certainly share the consternation of others who decry the non-consistency of graders; but isn't that human nature? Judges, umpires, building inspectors, college admissions officers - virtually anyone whose job it is to qualify an item (or person): although they all try to adhere to stated standards, there is a wide variance on how any individual will interpret and make calls. Did we really expect a grading service, made up of human being-type graders, to be any different? >>



    Mark:

    Let's be reasonable. That is not the essence of the argument. PSA used to have two separate graders each independently evaluate a card before it was encapsulated. Another grader would be involved if the first two came up with different grades.

    Today - one grade looks at a card, it gets encapsulated, and then it gets reviewed. I have been told this by people at PSA.

    The inconsistency is primarily in the PSA 8/9/10 arena. The condition sensitivities are often very subtle, and a grader quickly evaluating a card will lead to inconsistent results.

    The issues I've seen is with modern set collectors who take 200 cards carefully screeed from a vending case, separate it ito two 100-card submissions, and submit them separately. It seems like often in those case, one 100 card submission ends up grading out at an average 8.75, and the other submissio ends up grading out at 8.25.

    When you're paying $500+ per submission - having these inconsistent results is troubling. It's not like modern graded is worth much anyway - and having a card come back half the time as an 8 and half the time as a 9 is very annoying.

    I am actively buying MIKE SCHMIDT gem mint baseball cards. Also looking for any 19th century cabinets of Philadephia Nationals. Please PM with additional details.
  • IJustLoveCardsIJustLoveCards Posts: 1,345
    A computer program with standards placed in the program will be able to grade cards in the future. Think of all the advancements in robotics, and the ability to control televisions and computers with only your eyes, (yes this technolgy has been already developed and being used in parapeligics (excuse my spelling)). A prorgram could be written for which cards are sent thru an "eye" all attributes of the card are collected (front and back) then various conditions are given, whichever conditions the card falls under the grade is assigned. Before you laugh, I will bet that within 10 years this will be the norm. Any cards the "computer" couldn't grade will goto a human for review.

    We have the ability to do this (technology wise) it just needs to be finacially worth it to the industry to build it.

    And before eveyone jumps and asks about coloring and trimming they will be able to detect it because the eye will be able to scan the card from all angles thru the magnification..and detect coloring alterations.

    This is my Sci-Fi thread of the month
    The Link below will take you to the PSA Boards 1952 Set Build, I also have made 5 slideshows each slideshow is 100 cards long, card numbers 1-99,100-199,200-299,300-399, and 400-407
    Link To Scanned 1952 Topps Cards Set is now 90% Complete Plus Slideshows of the 52 Set
  • mikeschmidtmikeschmidt Posts: 5,756 ✭✭✭
    IJUSTLOVECARDS:

    CTA tried computerized grading. They have gone out of business.

    A computer cannot assess 'eye appeal'. Nor can it consistently be able to detect alterations, trimming, sheet cut cards, etc.
    I am actively buying MIKE SCHMIDT gem mint baseball cards. Also looking for any 19th century cabinets of Philadephia Nationals. Please PM with additional details.
  • IJustLoveCardsIJustLoveCards Posts: 1,345
    I disagree...the program was not written well enough..I can assure you we have computers and programs that do much more intense difficult tasks today. A computers limitations are only based on the program that is written, not the computer itself. Once a reputable company tries it for some cards and sees it works it will change. I dont want to argue, I will say we agree to disagree here..
    The Link below will take you to the PSA Boards 1952 Set Build, I also have made 5 slideshows each slideshow is 100 cards long, card numbers 1-99,100-199,200-299,300-399, and 400-407
    Link To Scanned 1952 Topps Cards Set is now 90% Complete Plus Slideshows of the 52 Set
  • StingrayStingray Posts: 8,843 ✭✭✭
    What is the time in hours or minutes that a card is actually looked at before assigned a grade?

    Stingray
  • rbeatonrbeaton Posts: 631 ✭


    << <i>What is the time in hours or minutes that a card is actually looked at before assigned a grade? >>

    I've heard that it's less than 1 minute/card.

    Robert
    Looking for:
    Any high grade OPC Jim Palmer
    High grade Redskins (pre 1980)
  • Mac53Mac53 Posts: 805 ✭
    Is there any sort of quality control system in place for PSA grading? My work is extremely subjective in nature, and somewhere a computer program randomly picks out some percentage my work for review by a panel of knuckleheads who critique it. Seems like there should be something similar in place for grading. Maybe there is.
    "Charlie, here comes the deuce. And when you speak of me, speak well."image
  • HubcapHubcap Posts: 293
    No disrespect, MikeSchmidt, it used to be 4 graders who each got 25 cents each. A pre grader and 3 main graders. So, the corporate mentality to save money at the expense of customer service resulted in a savings of 75 cents per graded card.

    To those who allow for margins of error, then remmeber that the next time your plane misses the runaway on landing.
  • mikeschmidtmikeschmidt Posts: 5,756 ✭✭✭


    << <i>No disrespect, MikeSchmidt, it used to be 4 graders who each got 25 cents each. A pre grader and 3 main graders. So, the corporate mentality to save money at the expense of customer service resulted in a savings of 75 cents per graded card. >>



    I have always agreed that this was a direct result of driving down grading fees. Nonetheless, this was PSA's active choice to lower the costs of grading and subsequently reduce the service provided. A net result is more cards graded [since the fees are lower], but graded with more inconsistency.
    I am actively buying MIKE SCHMIDT gem mint baseball cards. Also looking for any 19th century cabinets of Philadephia Nationals. Please PM with additional details.
  • DaBigHurtDaBigHurt Posts: 1,066 ✭✭
    I think the service PSA is providing is terrific and I'm very happy with them.

    PSA already ensures your cards go through a rigorous process of multiple graders, each spending 5-10 minutes on the card before assigning a grade. If they were to add additional graders, this will affect the cost and return times. None of us want that. Keep in mind these are certified and trained professionals in card grading. They can't just hire any joe schmoe off the street and allow them to grade cards. I know I wouldn't be comfortable sending my prized posessions to untrained people (You can send cards to BGS/GAI/SGC if you want that! LOL!!).

    Just as if I was ever arrested and charged with a crime, I wouldn't want a robot to be my defense attorney at trial, I don't want any robots grading my cards. What next? Have robots control our global nuclear arms systems? Didn't we learn anything from the Terminator movies? Robots CANNOT be trusted!

    image

    GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
  • IJustLoveCardsIJustLoveCards Posts: 1,345


    << <i>I Keep in mind these are certified and trained professionals in card grading. They can't just hire any joe schmoe off the street and allow them to grade cards. >>>


    Ummmm..and where was that school of grading located? I looked on the US dept of education website and couldn't find it...I googled and couldn't find "Certification of Grading seminars" anywhere...

    your help would be greatly appreciated...

    thank you
    The Link below will take you to the PSA Boards 1952 Set Build, I also have made 5 slideshows each slideshow is 100 cards long, card numbers 1-99,100-199,200-299,300-399, and 400-407
    Link To Scanned 1952 Topps Cards Set is now 90% Complete Plus Slideshows of the 52 Set
  • RipublicaninMassRipublicaninMass Posts: 10,051 ✭✭✭
    I think dabigskirt may actually be the professor for that University.


    Professional
    Sportscard
    Academy
  • SinibobCardsSinibobCards Posts: 183 ✭✭
    You knew this thread would bring him out.
    SinibobCards@aol.com

    Working on 56T BB and 80T BB
    Looking to trade blocks of BB graded commons for other blocks of BB commons

    https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/sinibobcards/othersets/3205

    https://www.ebay.com/sch/sinibobsystems/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=
  • softparadesoftparade Posts: 9,276 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    To those who allow for margins of error, then remmeber that the next time your plane misses the runaway on landing. >>



    WHHHHAT?

    ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240

  • 1967topps1967topps Posts: 459 ✭✭
    Human is fine

    Grader with a grudge a/k/a GOD (grader of death) is not fine
    ebay:1967topps
    1967and 1973 Topps baseball wantlists (any condition) welcome. Once had the #14 ATF 1967 set. Yet another collector like skylaneflyer, gimel1 who made it to the completion of 1967 only to need the money more than the company of 609 close friends.
    Looking for oddball Norm Cash and Cleon Jones stuff, and 1956 team cards
  • willsrwillsr Posts: 44
    I have had the grader of death a couple of times now. See this thread for an example of the G.o.D.:

    Link
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