1959 Bell Rams - The quest is basically over!

bowdowntome

Well, it looks like I waited to long to make another post in my BB Rams thread and it has disappeared. Oh well!

PSA has finally added this set to the registry.

I just got done uploading the images for my first set in the registry. I'm somebody now!

Not only that, but I have the finest set so far (Shhh, don't tell anyone.......mine is the only one listed right now. At least I can enjoy it for a while)

Problems:
My scanner sucks! I tried making some nice clear scans, but it appears my cheapo scanner is not "up to snuff". The problem is that the card, within the holder, does not lay flat againslt the scanner bed. This causes the card to look burry, while the outside edge of the holder is crystal clear. Good enough for now, I guess.

Here's a link to my one and only (so far) registry set.

LINK

Now that the hard part is over, now comes the wait! Waiting for a good special to come along so I can submit the rest of my BB R's.

MorrellMan

BDTM - what a trip down memory lane - I loved those cards as a kid!
The scans aren't as bad as I would have thought from your description;
someone here with more scanning savvy than me might be able to help you
with that, but my first thoughts are increase the dpi (go from 150 to maybe 300 or 450)
and try the 'sharpen" function.
Good luck with this set - it is a classic and you have quite a good reason to be proud.
This is one of the great all time Los Angeles regional issues.

bowdowntome

Thanks M-Man!

Actually, they were scanned at 300dpi, with a setting suitable for art prints. This is what I usually scan cards at for my website, then I reduce the scanned image to 100dpi. The problem is that the cards in the holders are not close enough to the scanner bed. When I scan raw cards at the same dpi, they come out fine. The farther away the cards get from the scanner bed, the fuzzier they will get. I honestly think I can get cleaner .jpegs with my camera. I just think this old cheapo scanner is past it's prime. It's time to get a brand new cheapo scanner to replace it. Besides, these things are like throwaway items nowadays.

But, if anyone has any alternate suggestions, I'm all ears.

I see one of my other favorite football sets is on the set request waiting list (1962 Post football) and i can't wait for it to go live. It will probably be my second set to build on the registry. I have about 10 really sweet cards to submit right now, with complete black borders, including 3 SP's. Plus quite a few that have maybe a small portion of the black border, in a corner, that isn't complete. But, as I understand it, these would only get labeled as "authentic" and not graded, so......

gregm13

Congrats - I don't know much about the Bell Brands besides what I've read on the boards. I looked at the pics you have uploaded - the cards are very, very nice. The cards seem fairly difficult to come by - what sources have you bought the cards from?

Regards,

Greg M.

bowdowntome

Greg, thanks.
The near complete set (37 of 40) I bought (advertised as NMT) I got from Higbee's. It may not pan out to be NMT overall, but I think it will be pretty close. Other than that, it's pretty hit and miss where you might find them. Most of the online stores specializing in football are constantly sold out of anything decent. Ebay is about the best source that I can find, but quality will vary, and not usually at the high end.....that's if you have the patience to do daily searches in the hopes of finding even 1, and then competing with some pretty stubborn buyers.

When I lived in SoCal, you could find them every once in a while at a local show. Here in Missouri, ask any dealer about them and you are usally met with a blank stare.

donnnster

Nice set! Just got a random off topic question for ya. How long did it take for PSA to get your set in their registry? I am waiting for my set to register and it has been a month already

bowdowntome

Thanks!
Let's see, I made the request the day they posted the grades, which was on 3/16. It looks like the set went live on 5/3, so about a month and a half, give or take.

bowdowntome

Been a while since I visited this thread, but nothing significant has happened.

I was kind of hoping to find the remaining cards I needed, and the few upgrades, so I could send them all off to be graded at one time. But I've found nothing. There have been more than usual being offered on ebay recently but none that I needed.

So, with the deadline looming for the current grading special, I have decided to just submit what I have, that I feel are worthy.
I have a total of 37 of the 40, and 6 are already graded. Out of the remaining 31, only 27 will be sent in. 2 have bad creases and staining, 1 would probably be lucky to get a 6 with an (OC) qualifier, and the last one to be left behind is Ollie Matson, only because I don't believe it would be considered a "common". I'll just make up a submission at some time which will include a bunch of stars or something and throw it in.

As far as grades go, I'm far from a grading expert and only have my 6 to go on. But I will take a "guess" that out of the 27 being submitted, 20 will be in the 6-7 range. In fact, I'll go on record and say that out of those 22, more than half will be 7's (optimistic, aren't I?). 2 I'm hoping, will make the jump to an 8, and the other 5 will probably be 5's.

If the current population of '59 BB Rams (27 total graded) holds for a while, this one submission will double that population.

I should be getting this thing off before the end of the week.

blue227

Congrats on almost completing the set and best of luck on the grades! As a registry set collector of their baseball sets, i know how tough Bell Brands can be to come by and how PSA can be even tougher on their grading. I don't know anything about the FB set but always wondered why Bell made a FB in '59 (that was 2x the size of their largest BB set) yet didn't make a BB set that year. Post your results when you get them!

lostdart58

I would submit the Matson also.............it should slide through.

....

Fuzz

Definately submit the Matson.
One of the guidelines they use for comon is $500 BV.
I suspect that uless it is a lock 9, 10 or 11 it should pass under that easily.
I have even gotten bigger names under the wire just not in 9.
Fuzz

Griffins

<< <i>When I lived in SoCal, you could find them every once in a while at a local show >>



I"ve lived in LA my whole life, went to shows in the '70's all the time and almost every show here since '00 and I"ve never seen a Bell football card. They have got to be much tougher than '58 Bells, and those are astronomically tougher than '60-62 baseball Bells.
Congrats on putting this set together, and thanks for the scans on the registry!

MorrellMan

BDTM - you know I love that set and I agree - I think Matson should be able to go thru with the rest. If not, they can always send it back to you with the other holdered cards.

I often see those yellow '60s, but Anthony is pretty correct - the '59s are tough to find. I do see them at shows from time to time but they are usually in VG condition. At one time I had an unopened Shofner that I sold to someone for some ridiculous pittance about 15 years ago (definitely one of my big regrets).

Good luck on the submission and keep us posted.

bowdowntome

Ok, ok, you convinced me, I'll slip the Matson in and see what happens. My worry was brought about by the thread started in the Sports Card an Memo forum about the 16 cards returned as "stars" that were in the common submission.

I was thinking that (PSA) might see the one HOFer (Matson) and then get irritated that everyone else was also slipping in borderline "stars" and then go on a spree, rejecting even the semi-semi stars like Jack Pardee and Jon Arnett. Maybe I'm just paranoid.

Griffins - I really wish I could take credit for putting this thing together. The fact of the matter is that I lucked out and purchased 37 of the 40 from a single source, all (or most anyway) in beautiful condition. Before that I was like everyone else, struggling to find decent singles anywhere.

The timeframe I remember seeing these at shows and such, when I lived in SoCal, was in the late 80's/early 90's. I even remember spotting them here and there at the Rose Bowl swap meet. Even bought a couple there myself. Nowadays however, unless there is a secret stash of them somewhere, they don't seem to be very available at all.

The 59's do seem to be tougher to find, but the 60's (yellow border) seem to be harder to find in nice condition, due to the colored borders. I'm not even really sure I'm going to try to get the 60 set, unless I can find a chance offering like I did with the 59's.

I will be sure to post the results here, and of course scans of each and every one will go up on the registry.

bowdowntome

Ok, my submission is on it's way.........including the Matson. Now the wait.

rickster

I"ve lived in LA my whole life, went to shows in the '70's all the time and almost every show here since '00 and I"ve never seen a Bell football card. They have got to be much tougher than '58 Bells, and those are astronomically tougher than '60-62 baseball Bells.

Griffins, while 58 baseball Bells are more expensive than '60 Bells, I don't think you can say they are astronomically tougher. A check of the Set Registry shows five '58 sets completed, with a rating over 6. No one has registered a complete 1960 set yet. I know how hard this set is to complete in high grade, I have been working on it for over 10 years, and still need 2 cards. Even 1961 has three completed sets with a grade over 7, and 1962 has 4 completed sets with a grade over 6. I know you love the '58s, but I believe you are being blinded by love here.

I also think some of the reason you don't see football Bells around is that the Rams weren't very popular in the '50's and early 60's, so not many people collect these cards. I remember seeing some high grade Bell football cards at a couple of Nationals, and while they were good looking cards, I hadn't even heard of most of the players. Of course, that same statement is true of most older vintage sets, and there are certainly collectors of those out there.


Rick

CollectorChris

"...58 baseball Bells are more expensive than '60 Bells..."

When you add the 17.5% buyer's fee, the proud buyer for this lot paid a whopping $8,283.75! What were they thinking?

1958 Bell Brand Los Angeles Dodgers High-Grade Collection (8)

rickster

I believe that the Koufax in an 8 has gone for over $5,000 in another auction, which may explain the price for the Mastronet lot.

Rick

MorrellMan

<< <i>I also think some of the reason you don't see football Bells around is that the Rams weren't very popular in the '50's and early 60's, so not many people collect these cards. I remember seeing some high grade Bell football cards at a couple of Nationals, and while they were good looking cards, I hadn't even heard of most of the players.
Rick >>



Rick, you have a point there. Norm Van Brocklin had given way to Billy Wade, Tom Fears and Elroy Hirsh were replaced with Jon Arnett and Jim Phillips, and let's face it, Ollie Matson really belonged with the Cards.

I think, though, that another factor for the scarcity of these cards is that, in those days, football ran a far distant 2nd, if not 3rd, to baseball.

bowdowntome

<< <i>As far as grades go, I'm far from a grading expert and only have my 6 to go on. But I will take a "guess" that out of the 27 being submitted, 20 will be in the 6-7 range. In fact, I'll go on record and say that out of those 22, more than half will be 7's (optimistic, aren't I?). 2 I'm hoping, will make the jump to an 8, and the other 5 will probably be 5's.

If the current population of '59 BB Rams (27 total graded) holds for a while, this one submission will double that population.

I should be getting this thing off before the end of the week. >>



I guess my grading is not up to snuff as far as making educated guesses.

I just got home from work to find my grades finally posted.

Here are the results:

1 1959 BELL BRAND RAMS 7 JON ARNETT N/A 7
2 1959 BELL BRAND RAMS 8 DEL SHOFNER N/A 6
3 1959 BELL BRAND RAMS 9 JACK PARDEE N/A 7
4 1959 BELL BRAND RAMS 10 OLLIE MATSON N/A 8
5 1959 BELL BRAND RAMS 11 JOE MARCONI N/A 8
6 1959 BELL BRAND RAMS 12 JIM JONES N/A 7
7 1959 BELL BRAND RAMS 13 JACK MORRIS N/A 8
8 1959 BELL BRAND RAMS 14 WILL SHERMAN N/A 7
9 1959 BELL BRAND RAMS 15 CLENDON THOMAS N/A 7
10 1959 BELL BRAND RAMS 19 BOB REIFSNYDER N/A 7
11 1959 BELL BRAND RAMS 16 LES RICHTER N/A 8
12 1959 BELL BRAND RAMS 17 JOHN MORROW N/A 8
13 1959 BELL BRAND RAMS 18 LOU MICHAELS N/A 8
14 1959 BELL BRAND RAMS 20 JOHN GUZIK N/A 6
15 1959 BELL BRAND RAMS 21 DUANE PUTNAM N/A 6
16 1959 BELL BRAND RAMS 22 JOHN HOUSER N/A 7
17 1959 BELL BRAND RAMS 23 ALEX LANSFORD N/A 7
18 1959 BELL BRAND RAMS 24 GENE SELAWSKI N/A 8
19 1959 BELL BRAND RAMS 25 JOHN BAKER N/A 7
20 1959 BELL BRAND RAMS 26 BOB FRY N/A 6
21 1959 BELL BRAND RAMS 27 JOHN LOVETERE N/A 7
22 1959 BELL BRAND RAMS 28 GEORGE STRUGAR N/A 8
23 1959 BELL BRAND RAMS 29 ROY WILKINS N/A 8
24 1959 BELL BRAND RAMS 30 CHARLIE BRADSHAW N/A 7
25 1959 BELL BRAND RAMS 31 GENE BRITO N/A 6
26 1959 BELL BRAND RAMS 32 JIM PHILLIPS N/A 6
27 1959 BELL BRAND RAMS 34 LAMAR LUNDY N/A 6
28 1959 BELL BRAND RAMS 40 LOU RYMKUS N/A 7

All in all I'm pretty satisfied. Out of the 28 I sent in, I got 9 - 8's, which is much more than I anticipated, 12-7's and 7-6's, which is about what I figured. The great news is NO 5's, or qualifiers, which I really expected a few based on the first few I sent in. The bad news, if you could call it that, is that the one card I really thought had a chance at a 9 (Joe Marconi), only got an 8. Oh well.

Of course it figures, that they posted them on the cutoff day, and I didn't see them until after the deadline when I got home from work.

I'm kind of stoked actually, those 8's are the first graded 8's (Unqualified) that I will own.

Most of the cards in this submission are the first to be graded, but quite a few are now either the highest to be graded or share the highest. Only 1 of them has a higher graded card.

I don't really know how the grade points and set rating work but by my calculation (I think) my grade points will jump from 6.17 to 6.91....again, I think.

This is fun! What'll I send in next!

blue227

<< <i> This is fun! What'll I send in next! >>



How about '60 Bell Dodgers? That's a set that will break your heart. Or better yet, '58 Bell Dodgers. That one will only break your wallet!

bowdowntome

Man, I wish I still had some them Bell Dodger cards. I sold a stack of about 50 (no 58's though) at a card show about 12 years ago. Nothing however, as nice of condition as these Rams cards.

MorrellMan

BDTM - fantastic submission!!! Congratulations - are you going to post scans of your set in the registry?

bowdowntome

MM - Thanks! Yes, I'll put scans up of each one. I may go shopping for a new scanner this weekend though, I don't like the way mine scans the cards in the holders.