Does PCGS have the final word on the micro o morgans being counterfeit?

PerryHall

I was talking to a coin dealer who is very knowledgable concerning morgan dollars and he said he was very skeptical that these coins were counterfeit. He said he had seen several over the years and they all looked real to him. PCGS has been authenticating and slabbing these coins for almost twenty years and now they decide they are all fakes. Does anyone think that another expert in the series will step foreward and declare that these coins are authentic? I'm interested to see what NGC and ANACS has to say about these coins.

DHeath

If someone can produce a legitimate micro-O in the dates mentioned absent the diagnostics PCGS illustrated, those dates will remain viable. Otherwise, collectors will have the final word. JMO

nwcs

Well, it obviously fooled people for decades but I have to say that PCGS's evidence is pretty convincing. The other services seem to be convinced, too.

coinkat

I really don't know...

airplanenut

Don't forget that David Lange called them likely counterfeits last year... and he's a pretty sharp authenticator... with him and PCGS both saying counterfeit, it's hard to think there's another top expert who would say otherwise...

kranky

If that dealer still claims the coins are legit after seeing the evidence, I'd love to know his reasoning.

RAD

WOW!! Nice eyes at PCGS!!! Hard to argue with the data they provide..... Glad I don't have one!!

CarlWohlforth

<I'm interested to see what NGC >

There was another thread that listed an article by David Lange of NGC who also thinks these are counterfeits. After looking at the photos and reading the arguments I concur. These are well made and fooled the people that needed to be fooled at the time. So I am not surprised your dealer isn't convinced.

CarlWohlforth

I forgot to say I wish I did have a PCGS certified one. If I did have one I am not sure if I would cash it in or not. They are certainly an interesting coin...

Barry

Besides the die characteristics is the ratio of silver:copper being different. Sure sounds bogus.

coinkat

The silver content is really not convincing in light of the comp Morgan that was tested was not within spec.

According to PCGS, the reverse used was either from an 1880-o micro or 1899-o micro. While I agree that is the mostlikely possibility, there still seems to be some variation among the mint marks. For example, look at the photos in FEY's Top 100, the 1900-o mint mark seems to be tilted differently than the 1896-o and 1902-o placement. If they are in fact counterfeits, it seems possible that more than one reverse die was used even though the transfer marks are very compelling to support the use of a single reverse die. After all, it is clear that three different obverse dies were used.

While I do not claim to be an expert at authentication... I guess I ask this question to those that are... Should there be signs of transfer marks present on the obverse of the coin? If there are, where are they?

BAJJERFAN

I would imagine that its up to some Guvmint agency like the Treasury to say whether or not these coins are genuine or counterfeit.

eyoung429

Does anyone have a comparison for these "counterfiet coins"? So far, I have heard that they are all slabbed..