crackouts and crossovers, what's your best story?

yellowjacket

I know this has been kicked around before, but what are some of your best/worst crackouts and crossovers? I bought a Buffalo 18/17-D ANACS-20 at the 2000 ANA. It appeared natural and conservatively graded. Cracked it out and sent it to PCGS. Came back in a 15 holder! I told my dealer to crack it out and send it straight to NGC. Came back in a 30 holder! I, then, sent it back to PCGS as a crossover and it CROSSED into a 30! How's that for going around Robin Hood's barn to get to where you want to go?

joeyuk

I purchased a nice proof cent variety for $600 in ICG 68CAM. I cracked it out
and sent it to PCGS whare it received a 67CAM. grade and sold for $1800.

jcping

My ex-1926D standing liberty quarters:
NGC MS62 --> crackout PCGS BB --> raw PCGS AU58 --> regrade AU58FH
To me, it is a no-brainer's Full Head coin.

yellowjacket

Way to go JoeYuck. Good eye on those proofs. That's a tough one to call...68 vs. 67 CAM, ICG vs. PCGS and being able to make it pay in the market place. JCPing, good job on locating a 26-D FH SLQ and getting into any PCGS holder! Full Heads are tough going, especially in that date and MM.

Russ

Picked up an NGC MS66 1969-D Kennedy for $37, cracked, submitted, came back PCGS MS66. Sold for $318.

Picked up a PCGS MS67 1965 SMS Kennedy for $45, cracked, submitted, came back MS67CAM. Sold for $392.

Picked up a PCGS MS65CAM 1967 SMS for $35, cracked, conserved, submitted, came back MS67DCAM. Worth about $800. (It's the one in my sig line).

That's just a few off the top of my head.

Russ, NCNE

Russ

Damn, almost forgot my favorite!

1869 NGC MS64RB Two Cent Piece:

Submitted for cross at MS63RB - DNC.
Cracked out, submitted raw - Bodybag, Altered Surfaces.
Submitted a third time - MS65BN, POP 1/0!

Russ, NCNE

joeyuk

I have also purchased a few ANACS cents in PF67 for $200-300 crack out
and submit to pcgs and graded at PF67 there also to sell at $900.


EDIT TO ADD:
each that is.

segoja

How about two 1966 SMS Halves. Submitted to PCGS for 67DCAM, both came back 67CAM.

Submitted raw to NGC, 67DCAM and 68CAM.

Submitted back to PCGS for crossover....both crossed. Sold the DCAM for $1750, still have the 68CAM (which is close to a DCAM)

Not bad!

Have a 1911-D 2 1/2 in 62 that should be a 63, but I don;t have the .... to crack it out and send in raw, so I'm not sure what the story line here will be.

badger

Best was my first --

1952 NGC 25c PR68 Cam $700 at David Lawrence => cracked out => crossed to PCGS PR68 Cam $? no history that high at Teletrade or Heritage

Didn't even know better - thought that's how it worked

Worst was:

1950 NGC 10c PR68 Cam at David Lawrence => cracked out => crossed to PCGS PR64 Cam $? no history that low at Teletrade or Heritage

roadrunner

These are both from 1988:

1. I had a pair of "O" mint seated quarters in near gem grade (at least by how I graded back then). Had purchased them raw about 4-5 years earlier. Sent the colorful one to PCGS and the cleaner more subdued one to NGC hoping for 65's. They both came back 64's. Drat. Reversed them and sent them out to PCGS and NGC again. This time they both came back 65. Nice! By the way they
were an 1856-0 and an a 1858-0. The 56-0 recently resurfaced in an NGC holder so someone had cracked it out of the PCGS holder in hopes of a 66..and then couldn't get back to a PCGS 65. It had 66 surfaces by today's standards but not the blast. The NGC MS 65
1858-0 is still the finest known to my mind and would likely make 66 if resubmitted. It had monstrous bullseye Raymond toning w/white golden centers. A slight scuff in the right obv field is all that kept it from another grade higher. If it showed up today I'd expect a runaway price. It's the nicest looking gem O mint quarter I have ever seen. O mint quarters are rare enough in gem and very few stayed uncleaned or undipped never mind made their way to albums to get colorful toning on original blast white surfaces.

2. Purchased a very choice raw MS64+ 1838-0 dime out of a 1988 Stack's auction...around $6700. It came back as a 64 from NGC. I thought it had a chance at 65 so I tried PCGS after cracking it out. It came back a 63. Holy drat. I was devastated and at the time in a tight cash position. Waiting weeks to get it back in the 64 holder was gonna hurt. I offered it in the 63 holder at a discount at a Long Beach show and got zero takers. Just dealers laughing in my face. "Well then son, you oughta get it back in that der 64 holder, and then lookee me up, snicker, snicker." At the time, the plastic meant everything. Forced to resubmit, it went back to NGC in a group of coins. Lo and behold, it came out NGC MS65....pop 1, first ever graded, none higher. Nice! At this time an 1837 no stars type coin was bid at $10,000. A mentor of mine who also snickered at my predicament now offered me $10,000 for the coin when a few weeks earlier he wouldn't consider even buying it at $5,000 (guess he figured I had "doubled" my money from $5-10K and that's why selling the 38-0 for type made "sense"). I resisted and I think he may have upped it $10,500. I was being chiseled and left with my coin. The date was worth an easy 50% premium to an 1837 type as sight-unseen. Sure enough, the next day I pick up the phone to one of the major players in better date seated and offered it up for $15,000 (remember, I was cash crunched too). In 5 minutes it was a done deal. Coin went from $3500 in the holder to $15,000 in the holder in a few weeks.

The dealer who had offered me $10,500 was furious when he learned I had sold the coin "out from under him." He said that he was still in the process of "negotiating with me." Hey, I had no idea I was "negotiating" just thought I was being low balled (lol). True story. I had mentioned the dealer I sold it to and he even called the guy up and said I had somehow screwed him out of the deal. And if you can believe it, he got back in on the deal with the new dealer! I believe the coin later sold in the $18-20K range as the market heated up further. I learned several valuable lessons from this one.

roadrunner

haletj

1926-s Lincoln icg 63rb to pcgs 64rb ($150 to $1500). That was a duplicate as I don't bother to upgrade the coins that I am keeping. Some of them would be an even better story. How about this $600 1919-s Lincoln?

yellowjacket

The common "thread" here is the opinion that you have a better chance of crossing at the same grade or even improving your position from ANACS and NGC to PCGS if you crack out before submission rather than crossing in the holder. Do you think there is a conscious/unconsious trend at PCGS to DNC a coin in another's holder? I know some have expressed that opinion before.

I had several Mercs in an old Whitman album and picked the best ones for PCGS submission. Many did well, but I was disappointed with one of the best, a 1940 FB coming back BB. I put it back in the album and forgot about it. Months later I went back to the album to reassess what I had and sent in a few more. I remembered that one was the 1940 I had sent before and felt foolish for resubmitting it by accident. Well, it came back 67FB! Go figure.

DennisH

Bought an NGC XF45 1901 Morgan doubled die reverse that I thought was AU53.

Sent it in immediately to PCGS for crossover. Didn't cross.
Sent it in again about a week later. Crossed at XF45.
Sent it in for regrade (in the holder) about a year later. Upgraded to AU50.
Sent it in again for regrade (in the holder) about three years later with two other 1901 DDRs. Upgraded to AU53.

Certifying coins... the more you do it, the less you take it personally when the TPG doesn't get it right on the first try.

Oney

I cracked out two OGL Morgans and sent in a raw with a group of others. Results

1900-O PCGS MS65 -> PCGS MS66
1891-CC PCGS MS63 -> PCGS MS64

Both coins deserved the up ticks.

yellowjacket

Oney,
What a great turnover there! You da man!
YJ

jacktheknife

Here's a reality crackout for you.

1910-S NGC MS-66RD - A beauty, check it out

Came back PCGS MS-64RD OUCH!!!

Jack

coolkarma

My favorite I purchased as a 1954 PCGS PR66 Cameo Lincoln. After a visit to NCS (it had some cobwebs near the rim), PCGS graded it PR67 DCam. It's a beauty.

CoolKarma

jacktheknife

MANOFCOINS,

Just waiting for the planets to align...

Jack

MJPHELAN

I bought a 1916-S Mercury Dime AU-58 in an old PCGS holder. It looked MS to my untrained eyes. I cracked it, and it came back MS-64FB!

stephunter

1. 1964 Jefferson with nice color in an anacs pf64 holder, cracked and sent to Ngc, came back PF68
2. 1942-P Jefferson in anacs PF62 holder (had some yellow stuff on it), cracked, cleaned, and came back from Ngc 65 (nice cameo reverse).
3. 1880-O Morgan ICG62, cracked/sent Pcgs 58, cracked/sent Ngc 62.
4. 1945 Jeff DDR ICG66, Crossed NGC66, Sent/Crossed PCGS66 (pop 5/0).

MJPHELAN

Back in my field, I sent an ANACS 1946 D/D 5 steps to PCGS and it crossed at MS-66FS.

mercurydimeguy

I've only ever crossed 1 coin at grade in to a PCGS holder -- an NGC 1937-D 67FB Mercury Dime in to a PCGS 67FB holder.

I've crossed about half a dozen from 2nd/3rd tier companies at lower grades in to a PCGS holder, but those I bought at lower grade prices. Some include:

NTC 1918-D MS64FB to PCGS MS63FB (paid $500 for it )
NTC 1916-P MS67FB to PCGS MS66FB (paid $90 for it)
ACG 1942 PR66 to PCGS PR65 (paid $123 for it)

Those were early last year, though. I haven't crossed one (NGC or Anacs) coin, some at even 3 points lower min grade, since mid-late last year (all DNC). Out of all the DNC's (too many to mention in the last 6-9 months), I've cracked out 2 67FB Mercs (that DNC'd in the original holder) and sent them in raw. Both came back from PCGS in 67FB holders.

I've had much more success sending in raw coins (whether bought or cracked) than sending in other TPG slabbed coins for crossover grading. In reflecting back as to why, many reasons can contribute, but an interesting thought occured to me as I personally try to examine slabbed coins -- it is probably more difficult for PCGS graders to accurately grade a coin that's already in a holder. The holders might have smudges, scratches; you can't see the rims (a sometime tell-tale sign/difference between and AU58 and MS62/3 coin), etc., so I'm sure the rule of thumb for PCGS graders is when in doubt, DNC. In fact, I received my most recent DNC about 30 minutes ago

I've had the best success looking for, and finding, a great number of coins in PCGS holders that I felt were undergraded. Some noteworthy ones included:

PCGS 1923-S MS64FB to MS65FB
PCGS 1925-P MS64FB to MS65FB

Mike.

yellowjacket

Mike,

Good point about trying to grade another's coin "in the holder." I was pleased to cross an MS66FB NGC 35-D Merc into a PCGS holder at the same grade. Bright white and a beauty. It's part of my Registry Set. I haven't tried too many of those. I usually crack it out.

Yellowjacket

dpoole

Flat, no crack-out, unheard-of crossover of an NGC 1865 PR66DCAM Three Cent Nickel to PCGS. Coulda knocked me over with a feather!

yellowjacket

dpoole,
What so many of these stories point to is the ability, the knowledge of collectors to grade their series. The key is being able to cherry-pick those special coins in whatever holders they are in and get them moved over into the holder that best fits their set and the market. You know three cent nickels and are able to find THE ONE that will cross. Knowledge is money. Great work!
Yellowjacket

yellowjacket

MJPHELAN,

FullStepsJeff has your 66FS 1946-D/D at $6785 average in a previous thread. Whew! Great find and a great cross!

YJ

Boom

No doubt about it. Sending in two very PQ PCGS 63 1932-D Washington Quarters for regrade and BOTH of them going PCGS 64.

Crackouts, I don't do so well. Sometimes previously graded PCGS coins actually come back graded lower.

Man, that's BAD news when you have a 66 trying for 67 and it / they come back as 65s!

emzee

I owned a 1972-P Ike type 3 in an MS66 holder I bought in the early 1990's. The coin was a real dog for the grade, deep gold color, extensive planchet abrasion. I sold it around 2003 for a substantial profit, creating a void in my PCGS Ike set. I owned another 1972-P Ike which I considered much nicer than the ms66 - it was a white coin in an ancient ANACS ms65 holder. I had previously submitted it to PCGS for crossover at ms65 (or better) and it was a DNC. I cracked it out and submitted it to PCGS again and it came back in an ms66 holder !!

What does the above anecdote (which I have seen occur more than once) say about PCGS objectivity in grading crossovers? Or is it just another indication of how much inconsistency there is on a day-to -day basis even with the best graders in the industry?

Michael

yellowjacket

I was at Heritage and saw one of my better crackouts up for auction on their signature sale! I bought an ANACS-61 1932-S Quarter, cracked it out and got it into a PCGS-64 holder. I would not call it PQ for the grade!

Yellowjacket

RBinTex

1957 PCI 69DCAM 1c $145 crossed to PCGS 68CAM. At the time pop 5/0. Sold for near $1,000

1971 DDO 1c body bag @PCGS 1st time for color. Next time 64RD - cha-ching.

yellowjacket

Boom,
I know what ya mean about crackouts....I bought two PCGS buffalos in MS63 that I thought were PQ and cracked them out for a regrade at PCGS; one a 15-S and the other a 17-D. The 15-S graded a 64...yes! but the 17-D came back in a BB. I sent the raw 17-D to NGC and it made a 62. I sent it back to PCGS for a cross but it DNC. Regrettfully, I put up for auction and it brought better than 63 money. I really wanted the coin for my registry set but could not get it into the PCGS holder. That does bother me some.
YJ

clackamas

<< <i>Here's a reality crackout for you.

1910-S NGC MS-66RD - A beauty, check it out

Came back PCGS MS-64RD OUCH!!!

Jack >>



You got robbed Jack. I can see 65 with the stuff in the fields but 64??? Is there a scratch that we can't see?

A highlight I have. An ANACS 1951-S Jeff MS66 ($30) - PCGS MS66FS 15/0 ($2000)

WaterSport

Just sent in a 1915 D Lincoln in a 63 R&B ANACS holder...Came back 64 RED