Ebayer bought card, doesn't agree w/PSA grade. Opinions?

doog71

So I recently sold a PSA 9 nq 1984 Topps Tiffany Don Mattingly on Ebay for about $80. Included a pic. I bought the card off of Ebay last year and was re-selling it. I just got an email:

"What's the story behind this card? There is NO WAY PSA would grade this card Mint. A switch was made somewhere along the line. It has TWO corners, the top corners, which are flawed!"

First time I've been accused (at least indirectly) of doing something I'd have no idea how to do in the first place. Any opinions on how to handle this? I'd appreciate it.

Doug

DirtyHarry

I think you can trace the cert #, maybe with some help from PSA.
Do you think the card was a "9" basis PSA standards? Have to ask that first.

doog71

Yes, it looked like a 9. Do you mean look up the PSA # on the card? How might that help?

Thanks,
Doug

EagleEyeKid

Hey Doug, you recently sold 2 of these right?
From the scans, looks like one had the old flip and the other is
the present day flip. My first thought was there was a bit of fog
on the lower left corner of the old flip one which may be nothing and if
this is indeed the one that is being questioned. It may be nothing, but
if he's saying the top 2 corners are flawed....flawed how? Dings? It's possible
that the corners got pinched (happened to me and I have a couple holdered PSA 10)
during the encapsulation process. I guess it's really up to you if he's pestering you about
a refund or you can tell him to take it up with PSA since they graded it. That's why I have
big high res scans on my auctions and state all graded card sales are final. Good luck.

doog71

EagleEye, thanks for the comments. This card looked very sharp when I sent it. How do you go about getting a high res scan when using a scanner?

Thanks,
Doug

Axtell

Tell him to return the card, and you'll inspect it and see if the buyer isn't the one who possibly swapped the card.

Not sure I'd risk a negative fort this card.

EagleEyeKid

I usually set my stuff at 100- 150 DPI. To tell you the truth, I don't even know what DPI stands
for, but after fiddling around with it, I notice the quality is sharper and the scans are larger.
I also use geocities.com (yahoo) to host my pictures and make it any size I want by just putting
it smack in the middle or even on top of my auctions. I never use/pay for the Ebay supersize pic
for $2. Here's a sample.
I'm no computer whiz, but this has helped me out a lot.

MarkLee

DPI = Dots per inch, a measure of resolution. The higher the DPI the higher the resolution and the larger the file size of the image.

DirtyHarry

Doog71 - do you think the card was a "9". Forget imaging.

DirtyHarry

Doog71 - do you think the card was a "9". Forget imaging.

stevek

When I see auctions which clearly state "no refunds on graded cards" I don't bid. My opinion is the chances are that you could get a card with some "problem" or at the very least a low end card for that grade. Unless somewhere in your auction it was stated "no refunds" then you should give him his money back. But that's your call on whether you want to take the neg or not along with the nasty comments.

goudeygold

simple solution. big pics and "no returns on graded cards". if the buyer can't handle a picture and a 3rd party grading service opinion, then they need to buy raw. Its retarded people think they can be so nit picky. seriously people, not all of us have the time to take returns, get refunded, relist, etc... The big auction houses don't take returns, why should you?!

GG

EagleEyeKid

simple solution. big pics and "no returns on graded cards". if the buyer can't handle a picture and a 3rd party grading service opinion, then they need to buy raw.

Allen

I hate when buyers pull this kind of stuff. You don't want to put "No Refund on graded cards" or anything because it makes you sound shady, but if you don't you risk this type of thing happening.

kingraider75

I would say, can you stand a negative? If so, then tell him it's a PSA 9. The seals are tight, you aren't the card grader, so what are you suppose to do?

Mattingly PSA 9, but it looks like a PSA 6 or 7, bid accordingly! yeah right. Ebay is basically buyers beware.

stevek

One of the first cards I bought on ebay working to upgrade my 61 Topps set was a PSA 9, No Qualifiers, Gil Hodges. There was no scan of the back of the card. When I received it, there was a dime sized ink smear on the back where the stats are and the printing couldn't be read. I was p*ssed off beyond belief because when buying a PSA 9 I'm expecting close to a pristine card with no flaws - which is the way almost all PSA 9's are. Of course the seller had a no return policy.

I always stick up for the members here, but in this case this buyer may have a valid complaint. Maybe the buyer could e-mail you a scan to see what he's talking about to eliminate the possibility of him just wanting to get his money back because he overspent on ebay. If the card looks good, then this buyer has to keep the card. If the buyer has a legitimate complaint, he should get a refund.

doog71

Thanks again for all the comments, everybody, problem resolved. Love this board! The buyer, I think to his credit, sent another email and clarified he didn't think I was at fault, but was surprised PSA would grade a card with two "nrmt/mt corners at best" a PSA 9. He didn't ask for his money back, but if he had insisted I probably would have done it since the card only sold for $73 and I've gotten close to $100 before. I mentioned to the seller he could Ebay it and easily get his money back, and probably make a little.

Thanks again,
Doug

footballfan

I am not suprised that a Ebay buyer thought your PSA 9 card was overgraded. In my experiance on buying PSA cards on Ebay it is hit and miss. I have never blamed the seller for a overgraded card except when I bought a PSA 10 from 4 sharp corners that had visible wear in two areas. I have bought several PSA 8 cards that if I recent them I know they would grade in the 5 or 6 range and that angers me. I spent $175.00 for 1970 topps fran tarkenton PSA 9 that has dirt smudges on back and his face has numerous printing dots. Less than 50% of the PSA cards that I have bought on Ebay are accurate on the grade. That is why I don't buy PSA cards anymore.

Stingray

It is hard to see every detail on a scanned picture of card, but I have a hard time believing that 50% of your cards have been misgraded. I am starting to piece together a 67 set and am only buying 8s or 9s and of the 8s so far some "low end" 8s and others are "high end" 8s, but all fall into the 8 range to me. I see scans on Ebay and the corners all look fine, but you get the card in person and you can see some slight were on one or two, that might be in a PSA 8 holder and think is this really an 8? I figure that it is in the holder it is what it is and do not let it bother me. Anyways I enjoy looking at my cards, the picture of the players, what is going on in the background of the photo, reading the writing on the back and analyzing his stats. I do care if my PSA 8 has a little fuzz on one corner.


Stingray

yankeeno7

I say buyer beware...even on graded cards. You are buying a professionally graded card that you are obviously trusting. No fault of the seller. This just strengthens the phrase "buy the card, not the grade" as we have all seen 8's that look more like 10's and 8's that look like 6's. Thus the reason I buy mostly what I feel to be high end 8's.

Buccaneer

<< <i>simple solution. big pics and "no returns on graded cards". if the buyer can't handle a picture and a 3rd party grading service opinion, then they need to buy raw. Its retarded people think they can be so nit picky. seriously people, not all of us have the time to take returns, get refunded, relist, etc... The big auction houses don't take returns, why should you?!

GG >>



I agree as well. I usually put a large scan in layout and state that if you want to see the back, just let me know. As a buyer, I have no problems with not refunding graded cards and have carried that over as a seller.

Brian48

Yeah. Had this problem myself one time. My very first PSA 9 '84 Clemens had a very dark, brown line at the top. It looked as if the card was kept in a plastic page for years and this particular area of the card "aged" differently. It looked just awful and I thought that there was just absolutely no way PSA would have given this card a 9. The holder itself looked in good shape so I was pretty sure it wasn't tampered with. Luckily, the seller had another PSA 9 Clemens that he was willing to swap out with me.

ndleo

What is the point of selling graded cards if buyers want sellers to "guarantee" the card? I've purchased about $3500 in PSA cards ($20-$200 range) over the past two months and the difference within grades is amazing. The most blatant example is the 1978 Topps Molitor/Trammell. I have six of these, one looks like a potential 9, the other has the smudge and is off centered.

If you have a decent scan, I think the buyer should go directly to PSA.

mealeworm

I recently bought a 72 topps card psa8 and the card has an inch+++ crease down the left side of the front. The card looked great from the scan, and it would be a strong 8 if not for the crease. The holder is perfect too. No way it was resealed. Who do I take that up with??? I did contact the seller and ask him if he was aware of the crease and just getting rid of the card. No response yet. I hope psa will do something if he doesnt...

Stone193

Doog
Sorry to hear about this - what's the latest? As a person in "customer service" type biz, I like to err on the side of the customer is always right to keep a positive image and from an internal marketing strategy, keep them telling their friends.

On the buying of graded - we have had the debate for eons about buy the card not the holder but I would like to be able to trust the holder - just my take.

Having said that, seeing the card and ignoring the holder is also important otherwise one can be mislead - sorta like the hot chick "hot-lines" - they look like this on the ad:



and they may actually look like THIS!

mike

yankeeno7

LMAO Mike...I'd be quite upset if THAT came in my PSA holder

Stone193

<< <i>LMAO Mike...I'd be quite upset if THAT came in my PSA holder >>


How would it fit!!

doog71

Mike, this ended well. The buyer backed off very quickly and kept the card. If he had pressed, I would've given his $ back...

Doug

Stone193

Congratulations Doug!
Glad to see there is some sanity in the world. I don't sell on ebay and don't know if I could take the occasional hastle since I get my ball busted on a daily basis!

Good to here it!
mike

DirtyHarry

Yikes.....PSA 10. BTY, Stoneman taught me how to copy pics.

DS1991TOPPSCards

and they may actually look like THIS!


Now... is that what they call a Beckett Grade 10

jrdolan

Somebody in this thread said 50% of PSA cards are misgraded, which is silly. Now if he'd said 50% of PSA cards are misgraded "according to my personal grading standards," who could argue with that?

The point is that it's in the eye of the beholder. Some people think PSA 7 should have three sharp corners and perfect centering (they don't want to PAY for a 9, they just want a 7 to be that good!) Others are content with BCCG 7, which is equal to PSA 3 (literally true!) Still others have no exacting criteria of their own and are happy to take PSA's word for it.

A board member recently reneged on a deal with me, saying he didn't feel PSA's grade was correct. I gave him his money back in the interest of good will and peace on earth (and it wasn't worth the headache). But I think you should not be in the business of buying cards long-distance, if you're going to want your money back whenever your PSA 8 purchase is not the 8.8 you were hoping for, but rather an 8.2. You should be buying at shops and shows, with a loupe and a centering ruler in your pocket. Then you can enforce your personal grading preferences and pick only the cards that are high-end for the grade.

goudeygold

Exactly. you can't expect every card to be a borderline 8-9, instead of a 7-8 if your buying a "PSA 8".

GG

stevek

<<< Exactly. you can't expect every card to be a borderline 8-9, instead of a 7-8 if your buying a "PSA 8". >>>

No offense but that's what I expect. Unless I see a clear scan of the front and back of an "expensive" card, and unless there is a return policy, then I won't bid - period. When selling, I point out things such as wrinkles and creases of course, but also things such as print marks that may not show up well on a scan. I even point out print marks when on PSA graded cards - in my view that is the fair thing to do.

Steve

goudeygold

So you expect that every card you buy on ebay that is a 8 to be a high grade 8 and possible candidate for a resend and getting a 9? WOW, your expectations are high indeed.

Atleast you save yourself the trouble of not bidding unless they take returns. Just curious... What is your return rate for graded cards purchased on ebay?

GG

stevek

<<< So you expect that every card you buy on ebay that is a 8 to be a high grade 8 >>>

Yes - I think that is smart buying. I like baseball cards but I also like value for my money.

<<<and possible candidate for a resend and getting a 9? WOW, your expectations are high indeed. >>>

Not necessarily a "resend"...just a nice solid, well centered PSA 8. Or whatever the grade...a nice solid, well centered card for the grade.

<<< Atleast you save yourself the trouble of not bidding unless they take returns. Just curious... What is your return rate for graded cards purchased on ebay? >>>

I have never returned a lot. Maybe I should have returned a few but I didn't. The lots that should have been returned, I just resold them on ebay and took a slight loss. In my view it was easier than going through the hassle of a return, and of course you never know exactly how the bidding will go until it's over, so I lost a few bucks - that 61 Hodges card mentioned earlier was the worst - I lost about $45 on that card when I resold it. I clearly showed a back scan and pointed out the flaw so it was no surprise about losing money. And of course I don't like losing money, but overall I do quite well on ebay and this is the way that works out best for me.

Steve

Stone193

<< <i>just a nice solid, well centered PSA 8 >>


Hi Steve
Just for clarity, what do you consider well centered. We have had this discussion before but with respect to the 63F BB set I'm doing - a nicely centered card 60/40 or slightly better in 8 will go around 70-75% SMR while a centered one 55/45 or better will go above SMR most of the time.

I kind of like the bargain cards in the "nicely" centered area due to their affordability. And of course the 9s are really expensive IMO and really not that much better many times. I'm not a registry participator so grade/rating isn't a factor.

mike

goudeygold

Makes sense Steve.

I bought a 38 goudey raw from "coloradomountainsports" and I was actually warned by another board member that "there is a reason they don't send their raw cards into PSA" So I got one for $25 bucks that looked like a solid "4" and was actually a 5 or higher on their "bloated" grading scale. In short the card had a near puncture mark in it. I just resold it with a filler for $15, clearely describing the "poke", and losing money.

Now that they had another 38 I needed recently that was a "5.5" on their scale. I emailed them stating "is there ANY reason this card will not grade a 4 from PSA ?" I went on to add how I had purchased a raw card from them in the past that was waaay overgraded compared to PSAs standards. Needless to say, they never answered my email, so I likely will NEVER buy raw from them again.

GG

stevek

Hi Mike - I guess when it comes to centering it's the old cliche "beauty is in the eye of the beholder." There can be so many factors involved sometimes in the centering, for instance some cards in some Topps years when off center don't look that bad. Some cards in some Topps years look terrible off center. But for me it "starts" with the card has to have perfect or almost perfect centering top and bottom. On left and right centering, I'm not sure if this is because I'm right-handed or maybe my vision just sees it this way, but I just can't stand a card with more right border than left border, A card for me if not perfect left and right, if it has a little more left border than right border that's okay. Yea, I'm a picky SOB when it comes to my baseball cards - I admit it - LOL.

Steve

yankeeno7

If I buy a graded 8, I expect it to be WELL within standards....as some may view, a high 8. I also will resell any graded cards that I do not feel meet my expectations and sometimes with a loss. Sometimes the scans just look better than when you get the card in hand. For me, there aren't many people who are into PSA around where I live (Albany, NY). If they are, they feel they deserve over SMR. I have never returned cards...even raw. Buyer beware, right? I'll continue to take my chances on ebay and other avenues and will continue to find some gems as well as some I will lose my a$$ on.
I just dont think it's a bad thing to have high expectations on the grade. Just be ready to take a hit every now and then.

Stone193

I gotta say guys...tell this card doesn't push the grading envelope on centering? I would not bid on this card no matter how cheap it goes.

mike

Stingray

Nothing against the seller, but does this look like a 10?

Stingray

Try again!

Stone193

Sting
That's such a crappy scan, it's hard to say - it only used 14KB - very poor resolution.



mike

Stingray

Sorry that is the quality of the picture on Ebay. I just thought that the edges looked rough, common on 67s, and the centering too. I thought that those to items would keep it from a ten. But it could be the scan making the edges look rough.

Stingray