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PCGS grading of Mercury Dimes before 1934.

FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,424 ✭✭✭✭✭
in PCGS Set Registry Forum
Your thoughts please.

Ken

Comments

  • FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,424 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Okay I will start the discussion. My statement is very short to begin with.

    PCGS grades Mercury Dimes with two different standards. Cut and Dried and proved again to me this week.

    Ken
  • mercurydimeguymercurydimeguy Posts: 4,625 ✭✭✭✭
    Ken, Agreed, and a picture is worth a thousand words:

    Is there a 3 full point grade difference??

    35-D MS66FB

    imageimage


    25-D MS63FB

    imageimage


  • mercurydimeguymercurydimeguy Posts: 4,625 ✭✭✭✭
    Crossing over to this thread:

    ---------------------------------------------

    Ken (and all), and yet again:

    Is there a 3 point grade difference??


    1938-P MS67FB (sorry, the pic doesn't look like FB, but the bands are Full no problem -- just a bad photo angle)

    image


    1928-S MS64FB

    image

  • marcmoishmarcmoish Posts: 6,305 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Mike,

    based on the photos the 35-D has the "look" of a 66FB fyi but is should be in a 65FB holder.
    The 25-D has the "look" of a 64FB but the toning and eye appeal WILL bring it down a notch as it seems to have....
    It is tough to tell from pics - but I symphatize with you no less - it is frustrating...........


    Marc
  • mercurydimeguymercurydimeguy Posts: 4,625 ✭✭✭✭
    image
  • Steve27Steve27 Posts: 13,274 ✭✭✭
    My review (which you may not agree with):

    1925-D: The coin has an EXTREMELY weak strike, with the exception of the fasces on the reverse and the feather detail on the obverse. Example, the lettering is very flat and the last "A" in "AMERICA" in only partially visible. Additionally, Liberty's jaw and mouth are so weak that they appear to be hazy and ill-defined (her neck too but that may just be a shadow). IMO this coin is correctly graded at MS63FB.

    1935-D: Most of the letters/numbers (obverse and reverse) are sharp, with the exception of the last "A" in "AMERICA" which is a little flat on the top. On the reverse, the facses are well struck and only have minor defects. On the obverse, Liberty's portrait is well defined but some of the hair and feather detail is weak. Since there are no real hits on either side, this coin is graded MS66FB; although, IMO it could be a 65FB due to the toning which may be hiding a defect.

    1938-P: The letters/numbers (obverse and reverse) are super sharp and crisp without exception. On the reverse, the facses are well struck and have only minor defects. On the obverse, Liberty's portrait /feathers are well stuck, but there is minor weakness in her hair. There are no visible hits on this coin, thus they graded it MS67FB; although, due to the toning, IMO it could be MS66FB.

    1928-S: The letters/numbers (obverse and reverse) are rounded but not not sharp. On the reverse, the Olive branch appears to have weakness near the axe blade; otherwise, the facses are well struck. On the obverse, the portrait/feathers/hair are all well struck. There are no obvious hits on this coin, obverse or reverse. It 's graded MS64FB, which surprises me, IMO it's an MS65FB.


    Interestingly, these coins can be ranked, if not graded, by just looking at the quality of the last "A" in "AMERICA."




    "It's far easier to fight for principles, than to live up to them." Adlai Stevenson
  • mercurydimeguymercurydimeguy Posts: 4,625 ✭✭✭✭
    image
  • FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,424 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Right from the PCGS Grading Guide. MS67: The strike will be very sharp and almost always Full. Eye Appeal: In almost all cases the eye appeal will be superb. Any negativity will be compensated for by another area that is spectacular.

    Lets take Mikes 1938P and the 1928S. First which one has the better strike. Hands down its the 28S. Crisper hair and Crisper central design, which is what most collectors look at. Eye appeal looks to be about the same for both coins. Luster appears to be about equal also.

    So just what is the "Spectacular Area" that bumps the 38P to MS67 and leaves the 28S at MS64 ? According to what I see these coins should be both the same or at most a one point difference.

    If I had a pre 1926 dime to compare I could blow this strike part that PCGS talks about clear out the window. Any nicely struck pre 1926 Merc Dime will have a better strike than any post 1925 Merc Dime and the reason is simple. Part of the design was lost some how starting with the issues of 1926.

    Maybe someone can tell me exactly which year PCGS uses as their example of a Fully Struck Merc Dime. 1916...can't be, because a design change happened in 1917. 1917.... can't be because a design change happened in 1918. 1918 through 1925.... very possible. 1926 and after.... can't be because part of the design was lost and deterioration of the design was present through the end of the series.

    Ken
  • mercurydimeguymercurydimeguy Posts: 4,625 ✭✭✭✭
    image
  • FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,424 ✭✭✭✭✭
    For the last couple of years I thought I had the standards that are used to grade Mercs nailed down quite well. To me Luster was the whole key to what grade was going to be assigned a Merc. Just recently, and I will add after my last submission came back, second thoughts have entered the mind. Part was because a couple of coins were purchased from Mike in which one is undergraded for sure and part was because of the two coins I received last week.

    Granted the two coins were graded at different periods by PCGS. One is in a older Blue Holder and the other coin is in a very recent Blue Holder. The recent Blue holdered coin was graded after my last submission and from what I see a change of some sort has happened. Being that grading is subjective maybe on a certain day the second coin just did not look very good. Reguardless of what day it is or the subjectivity we as collectors deserve a fair shake when coins are submitted and the standards should stay about equal, now and in the future.

    Here is another example of a three point swing between pre 1934 Mercs and post 1934 Mercs. With these two I am not saying they should be graded the same but there sure is not a three point swing between these two coins. Guess which one is the Newly Graded coin.

    The color is off on this 30S but everything else is as it appears.

    image

    Color is closer on the 38D and everything else is as it appears.

    image

    Ken
  • mercurydimeguymercurydimeguy Posts: 4,625 ✭✭✭✭
    image
  • RADRAD Posts: 287
    Geez---I'm beginning to think it's more than a little arbitrary (take home message--buy what you like, and pay accordingly)!! That being said, and IMHO given the limits of grading via suboptimal photographs, I'd say 67FB on the 38-D giving credit for nearly full strike/lettering well defined with clear rim, good feather and hair definition to right/above eye(with some concern for what may be a few tics on "the lady's" face, left obverse field, and reverse fasces) and nice luster, though some slightly distracting tonig spots (graded at earlier date), and a 65FB? on the 30-S due to weaker strike (especially lettering on reverse, helmet 'jaw' extension and hair, suspected tics on face (hard to tell in photo) plus positive of great luster, though toning a little distracting (more recent grading); full bands may be at risk, depending on appearance in "real life". due to the fact that you prefaced your post by saying a 3 point spread, I'd say the 30-S might have been tagged with a 64----if so WRONG!!
    Let us know how they came out!!

    P.S. Want to sell the 30-s?? image
    RAD
  • mercurydimeguymercurydimeguy Posts: 4,625 ✭✭✭✭
    I sincerely apologize that my posts might have offended some here -- that was not the intent, however appeared to have been the result.

    I am truly sorry.

    Regards,
    Mike.

    PS. I have deleted my posts (other than the pics).
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