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Need British help

How can I tell the type A6 third head shilling from the type A7 fourth head?
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  • AethelredAethelred Posts: 9,288 ✭✭✭
    Bill, which monarch are we talking about here?
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  • BlackhawkBlackhawk Posts: 3,899 ✭✭✭
    The young head Victoria. I have 1867 and 1878 shillings and can't tell what head they are.
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  • I don't know which book you've got but it's not Coincraft (where 6 and 7 are jubilee heads), so i can't say with any certainty.

    If it's not the W.W (relief, incuse or total lack of) then it'll be a difference in the designs relief.

    I think the 7th head shilling would be a lower relief version, or one with slightly older features. In it's 50 year use the young head was aged slightly.
  • BlackhawkBlackhawk Posts: 3,899 ✭✭✭
    The book that I used as a reference is the 2004 Spink.
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  • Looking at Spinks 2004, the easiest way would seem to be to look for a die number on the reverse.

    If the 1878 has a die number, it would seem that it is a A7 ( lucky you if it is !), if not it would be A6.

    Don't know enough to even try to actually identify the differences in the Young head design. image
  • wybritwybrit Posts: 6,967 ✭✭✭
    Translating what Davies said:

    1867

    Type A4 - "I" of "VICT" point to bead.
    Type A6 - "I" of "VICT" points to a space.


    1878

    All have die numbers.
    Type A6 - The end of the hair chignon appears as an upside-down question mark. Davies identifies two minor variations of this type.
    Example

    Type A7 - The end of the hair chignon appears as a faint circle.
    Example
    Former owner, Cambridge Gate collection.
  • BlackhawkBlackhawk Posts: 3,899 ✭✭✭
    Thank you...the I points to a bead on the 1867, so that one is figured out. I can't tell on the 1878...it looks like the end comes around and joins the other part, but I wouldn't stake my life on it.
    "Have a nice day!"
  • BlackhawkBlackhawk Posts: 3,899 ✭✭✭
    Here's a pic of the end of the hair on the 1878 shilling.

    image
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  • wybritwybrit Posts: 6,967 ✭✭✭
    It looks like A6 to me, but it sure is not a cut and dry call. There does appear to be a circle of sorts there, but looking at the loop just above it, there is more of a resemblance to A6 than A7.
    Former owner, Cambridge Gate collection.
  • BlackhawkBlackhawk Posts: 3,899 ✭✭✭
    Is there any other way to tell them apart? Maybe I could sell it as a 6½.
    "Have a nice day!"
  • wybritwybrit Posts: 6,967 ✭✭✭
    Hair detail is more pronounced on A6, but aside from that the differences are pretty minor. That second loop appears the key difference IMO.

    Former owner, Cambridge Gate collection.
  • wybritwybrit Posts: 6,967 ✭✭✭
    One last comment - neither ESC or Davies, the specialty books on silver coinage - document the existence of the fourth young head type on an 1878.
    Former owner, Cambridge Gate collection.
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