Condor Tokens

Newmismatist

Anyone here an expert in Condor Tokens? I bought 6 really nice one's over the weekend at the Spring MI State show - I now have about 25 of them - all very high grade and interesting varieties. They seem quite inexpensive for 18th copper tokens - especially considering the grade. Are there any price guides for these tokens?

2 of the ones I bought this weekend say "Dedicated to Collectors of Medals and Coins" I couldn't resist as I collect both.

cosmicdebris

Pictures or D&H numbers might help? As for Prices you can check out the Prices relized at some auctions Like Dix Noonan's Website.

See my sigline for a link to my Conder Tokens.

Aethelred

A copy of Dalton & Hamer would really shed some light on these for you, it was written from 1910-1918 and is still the standard for the series. A copy will run in the range of $150-190, but it is well worth it!

farthing

There are several here who include Conder tokens in their collections. I have a bit more than 100 in my collection.

Conder101 probably knows more about them than anyone else around here.

Newmismatist

I have a copy of the Dalton & Hamer book - it cost me more than I've paid for any single token thus far!

Here are the DH numbers on the flips of the tokens I bought this weekend - I'll dig the rest out and see if they are attributed.

SOMERSETSHIRE - BATH DH35A
Remember the Debtors in Goal Has a seated female pointing to a young boy with a key
Portrait & says: John Howard Halfpenny
Blue-Brown Unc. Has a neat lettered edge that says payable in London or Bristol - no date.

KENT SANDWICH DH39
Sailing ship with Halfpenny Token for Sandwich
Shield with 3 recombant Lions + Manufactures Trade and Commerce
Brown Unc. Has a neat lettered edge that says payable Thomas Bunrock

MIDDLESEX SPENCE DH891
Men circling a Maypole with Head at Top "Tree of Liberty" dated 1796
Two Boys on a Turnstile "Little Turnstile Halfpenny"
Brown Unc. Struck from buckled dies Plain edge probably with no collar

MIDDLESEX SKIDMORE DH545 (No date)
Ornate script initials + "Dedicated to Collectors of Medals and Coins"
St. Michael Basing Hall - with a depiction of the bldg + B*T 1697 (Built 1697?)
Colorful Red-Brown & Blue- Violet Unc.

MIDDLESEX SKIDMORE DH548A (No date
Ornate script initials + "Dedicated to Collectors of Medals and Coins"
St Mary's at the Hill Billingsgate - with a depiction of the bldg
Brown Unc.

SHROPSHIRE - SHREWSBURY DH28
Halfpenny Shrewsbury 1793 + Shield with 3 Lion's heads
Bishop holding a book and a wool rake + "Success to the Woolen Manufactures
Has a neat lettered edge that says payable in London or Liverpool
Brown Unc.

Went to cosmicdebris website - a lot of really great token there - I remember 1 of mine with a loom that is similar - otherwise the 25 or so that I have are all different.

cosmicdebris

Nice bunch of Tokens you bought. Who was the dealer?

Conder101

Great, just what we need, more competition.

Really though, congratulations on some picking up some really nice tokens and an RR piece as well!

The Somersetshire piece is an RR variety, something like 30 pieces estimated to exist and it doesn't normally come real nice.

Kent 39 is a GTT (Genuine Trade Token) issued by a specific merchant intended to actually circulate as money. It is a common token and is relatively easy to find nice.

Middlesex 891, a scarce token (200 or so estimated) issued by Thomas Spence a "radical" political activist of the day. The head at the top of the maypole is, I believe, King George III. A vsual image of the "Tree of Liberty" being the King's head on a pike! (Is it any wonder he was tried for sedition?) The reverse image is a rebus of Spence's address No 2 Little Turnstile Rd. (two on a little turnstile)

The Middlesex 545 and 548a are part of a series of tokens made specificly for sale to collectors of the day. Known as the Skidmores Churches and Gates they were struck by Peter Skidmore and depicted all of the ancient gates and churches located within the one square mile area of the old city of London. The Churches and Gates series usually come very nice, often with extremely sharp strikes and PL surfaces.

Shropshire 28 I don't have any information on this variety at the moment, I don't have any references with me. But I will say that as a general rule Shropshire pieces DO NOT come nice. Usually they are well worn and even if you do find a high grade coin they are usually poorly struck.

I'm with Cosmic, who was the dealer?

Newmismatist

<< <i>Nice bunch of Tokens you bought. Who was the dealer? >>


I never reveal my secret sources!

Actually I've been buying thes things for several years as I find that medals and tokens are very inexpensive for the quality that you can buy - I have many Napoleonic Medals, Portrait Medals of various Kings and Queens, Condor tokens, Papel Medals, Civil War Tokens, etc. It's more fun to collect these then put together a set of coins where everything looks the same (which is probably why I also collect toned coins - they have their own personality and none of them look alike).

Newmismatist

<< <i>Great, just what we need, more competition.

Really though, congratulations on some picking up some really nice tokens and an RR piece as well!

The Somersetshire piece is an RR variety, something like 30 pieces estimated to exist and it doesn't normally come real nice. >>



I have no idea what a RR piece is - But I assume it's a rarity scale - much like the Flying Eagle and Indian Head Cent pattern coins that I collect. The Somersetshire token is probably the nicest coin uin the group as it is very lusterous, with blue and reddish irridescent highlites - on the US grading scal it would be a PQ MS65BN - but because it has colorful toning the BN designation is a mismnomer - it was the least expensive coin in the group



<< <i>Middlesex 891, a scarce token (200 or so estimated) issued by Thomas Spence a "radical" political activist of the day. The head at the top of the maypole is, I believe, King George III. A vsual image of the "Tree of Liberty" being the King's head on a pike! (Is it any wonder he was tried for sedition?) The reverse image is a rebus of Spence's address No 2 Little Turnstile Rd. (two on a little turnstile) >>



The motif on this coin is really cool - I thought it might be the head of the King or maybe even the Prime minister - It is struck from buckled dies and because of that has a charming crudeness to it - also slightly off center and it looks as though no coller was used as the edge has a roughness like is seen on ancient coins - the coin is probably close to Mint state, if not "as struck" - if I was grading it using current US standards, I'd call it AU58. The most interesting of the group IMO



<< <i>The Middlesex 545 and 548a are part of a series of tokens made specificly for sale to collectors of the day. Known as the Skidmores Churches and Gates they were struck by Peter Skidmore and depicted all of the ancient gates and churches located within the one square mile area of the old city of London. The Churches and Gates series usually come very nice, often with extremely sharp strikes and PL surfaces. >>



Both of these tokens is exactly as described by you - The Billingsgate is a gloosy Brown PL Unc and the Basing Hall is a very lusterous multi-colored RB unc - a Very PQ coin



<< <i> Shropshire 28 I don't have any information on this variety at the moment, I don't have any references with me. But I will say that as a general rule Shropshire pieces DO NOT come nice. Usually they are well worn and even if you do find a high grade coin they are usually poorly struck. >>



Probably a choice AU coin as there appears to be slight rub on the high points of the Bishop - but it may be as struck as the die work is very low relief and if a low relief coin is struck from worn dies it's impossible to tell whether there's rub or it just is not all there because of die wear or poor stiking quality - It has a very nice look and at 1st glance it looks like a Brown Unc with the copper mint luster peaking out all along the lettering and protected portions of the coin.

Condor - thanks for the great information on these tokens - There may be some more of these as I've bought these tokesn from this dealer in the past - I usually pass on any that are less than AU as I don't like the look of the Circs. Are there any valuation guides for these tokens?

cosmicdebris

<<I never reveal my secret sources!>>

Conder101

Yes RR is a rarity scale abbrieviation. D&H rated the scarcity of the tokens as Common, Scarce, R, RR, and RRR. An RR piece would be roughly at the low end of R-6 on the Sheldon Rarity scale, something like 30 or some pieces in existence.

The Shropshire 28 turns out to be an R coin (low R-5 Sheldon scale about 75 pieces) It is also the only Farthing token from Shropshire.

Newmismatist

Condor - The Shropshire Token says it's a Halfpenny - maybe as a Halfpenny it's not so scarce

Conder101

What is the size of the token? Shropshire 28 should be about the size of a nickel and I believe it says Shrewberry Half Halfpenny. If the token is about half dollar size and just says Halfpenny then it isn't a Shropshire 28. There are several halfpennys with the same design and they have various rarities. If the attribution of the Shropshir is wrong it might be a good idea to doublecheck the attributions of the other tokens as well.

Newmismatist

I didn't do the atributions - I just posted what was on the flips when I bought the tokens - I'll check D & H tonight

Newmismatist

<< <i>Great, just what we need, more competition.

Shropshire 28 I don't have any information on this variety at the moment, I don't have any references with me. But I will say that as a general rule Shropshire pieces DO NOT come nice. Usually they are well worn and even if you do find a high grade coin they are usually poorly struck. >>



I looked the tokens up in D&H - the Shropshire is 23 not 28 - so according to D&H it's scarce not R or RR - All the rest were correctly labeled

The SOMERSETSHIRE - BATH DH35A is the very nicest of the group - Blue and magenta toning - actually it's the reason I bought this little gropu - in addition to being high grade this one had beautiful colorful toning - very nice when on copper - Now if I could only find out what these things are worth I'd know had much I over-paid!