Filthy McNasty Tug McGraw Psa 9

dakota

I dont have a link but check out the 1969 Tug McGraw Psa 9 for sale on ebay.You might recognize the seller. DSLsports
Does anyone else think this card is UUUUUGGGGGly?

gaspipe26

I will admit, it aint pretty.

robstar

Link

1960toppsguy

looks decent to me, what's the problem with it?

Onlypsahockey

diamond cut....I would've got a 7.

enter dabighurt in 5...4...3...2...1...

DaBigHurt

<< <i>looks decent to me, what's the problem with it? >>

softparade

Centering is borderline. Depends on what you like. While the centering probably falls within PSA guidlines for a nine when measured does it fit within YOUR guidelines for a nine? I have fought with myself over this issue alot recently involving the 1978 Topps set I am collecting. I now only bid on and submit cards that look like 9's to ME.

TimeMachine

softparade nailed it. I do believe this falls into the 63-35 or better minimum requirement (top to bottom in this case) and I suspect the corners are mint too with no surface or print defects visible. The borders on the Topps' '69's and 65's in particular are a little narrower than some other years making extreme cases look worse than they actually are, an optical illusion of sorts. I suspect that if someone needs this for their registry they will bid it up and buy it.

Looks like a 9 to me, given the limited res. of the scan, but centering-wise, it looks OK. I am far more distracted by cards that are poorly centered L-R.

gmoneystyles

his glove is huge and fugly, as is the card.

mudflap02

Come on guys, its not that bad. The diamond cut is there, I will agree, but it is a nice looking card I wouldn't mind having.

WinPitcher

Filthy McNasty Tug McGraw Psa 9

lil harsh on your description don't ya think?

gemint

The cut doesn't look very good, particularly on the left side.

TimeMachine

I can almost guarantee the card gets unloaded for SMR+ considering how many folks collect/are trying to complete the '69 topps set in high grade... if a WL Mantle from the same year were in your posession in PSA 9 I bet you would be talking/spamming the Collector's Universe boards about what a sharp card it is... I have seen PSA 9 '52 Mantles with similar centering/tilt but they look even less impressive in comparison because the borders are comparitively larger... it's all in the illusion of poor centering that narrow-border years present imo...

Again, still looks like a 9 to me

gaspipe26

It looks a little short on top with a diamond cut. How anyone can tell it has 9 corners from a scan is beyond me, but in my opinion its not the nicest looking "9".

jrdolan

True, it's not the nicest-looking 9 and I wouldn't pay top-dollar (unless this short-print is extremely tough, I don't know). But if the corners are mint, the slight tilt and T/B centering don't disqualify it according to the criteria used by PSA. It might well fall short in the eyes of many collectors, but that's a different matter.

So is the question of whether DSL gets some slack because they submit 243 bajillion cards a week. Submissions are anonymous on the grading floor, they say, but I have to think experienced graders know when they're looking at a monster submission from DSL or 4SC.

IJustLoveCards

<< <i> So is the question of whether DSL gets some slack because they submit 243 bajillion cards a week. Submissions are anonymous on the grading floor, they say, but I have to think experienced graders know when they're looking at a monster submission from DSL or 4SC. >>

RipublicaninMass

<< <i>... I am collecting. I now only bid on and submit cards that look like 9's to ME. >>



So what do you do with the 10's?

gaspipe26

Well, cant answer that jrdolan, but as we all have had in our submissions. Some real nice cards get undergraded and some sliders get through with higher ones. It happens. These submitters send in a "bajillion" ( I like that word) cards, so I would expect they get there share of undergraded cards and a few sliders too. BUY THE CARD IN THE HOLDER. If you feel the card is a 9 buy it, if not pass or bid lower.

mcastaldi

jrdolan> "So is the question of whether DSL gets some slack because they submit 243 bajillion cards a week."

While I'm not sure anyone outside of PSA can give a definitive answer, let's assume for a moment that the mega-submitters such as DSL and 4SC do indeed "get some slack". Why do you seem to imply this would be the fault of the dealer? They didn't grade their own cards. If a dealer asks a grading company for special treatment, isn't it up to the grading company to say yes or no?

Mike

gaspipe26

Also, compared to the "amount" they submit, are they really getting there "share" of 9's and 10's. I dont know. We see the 9's and 10's because there the ones selling them but whats there % of 10's and 9's compared to amount of cards submitted. (Vintage or pre 76)

mcastaldi

Bob> I'll generally agree with your statement in so far as it goes. But. . .for nearly every set the PSA10 population as a percentage of total cards submitted has increased ridiculously in the last 18-24 months. The reasons behind this this trend have been widely debated, but the existance of this trend is undeniable to anyone who has followed the population dynamics of a given set for the last few years. On a percentage basis, I'm not sure the mega-submitters benefit from this any more or less than anyone else. However, because of the volumes they submit they reap the benefits of this trend in sheer numbers.

Mike

Coolidge

With the exception of first time submitters that think their vg-ex cards are mint, it seems like everybody has been very happy with their recent submission results. In my mind, that's probably not a good thing.

gaspipe26

Have the PSA 10 POP's jumped in all years or just say 68 thru 79? I can tell you this there is TONS of gem stuff for those years. As the high volume submitters are buying these hoards, the gem stuff is the stuff getting sent in, so I would expect a rise in more 10's from the late 60's and 70's. I rarely sent in 74's and younger so I didnt get many 10's if any. I send in a large submission of just incredible 74's, 75's and 76's and get 8% 10's. Seems high? Not if you saw the cards submitted. In fact I probrably expected more than 8%. If the card deserves a 10 then it should get a 10. Are there 10's that should be 9's? Probrably, 9's that should be 10's? Probrably. It goes right down the line, and right back to buy the card not the holder. Again, just my opinion from a collector and submitter.

mcastaldi

Bob> From the people I've talked to and dealt with, the PSA10 (and 9) explosion goes back at least to 61T. Potentially earlier sets have seen this as well but I cannot speak to that, even indirectly.

Mike

downgoesfrazier

That McGraw looks like a freakin' BLAZER compared to this little nugget...

79 Molitor PSA MINT 9

That's ridiculous. Both cards are silly. If these cards fall between the published standard guidelines I suggest those standards need a serious facelift.


dgf

For the record, the Ryan is clearly from the same vending run as the cut is almost identical and equally offensive as a MINT example.

sjeanblanc2

Here's some info on 1961 Topps:

7/2004 81,376 cards graded / 3786 PSA 9's / 107 PSA 10's
4/2005 96,765 cards graded / 5183 PSA 9's / 161 PSA 10's

Here's some info on 1963 Topps:

7/2004 56,900 cards graded / 2187 PSA 9's / 45 PSA 10's
4/2005 65,317 cards graded / 2771 PSA 9's / 62 PSA 10's

Here's some info on 1965 Topps:

7/2004 51,392 cards graded / 3881 PSA 9's / 64 PSA 10's
4/2005 61,075 cards graded / 4961 PSA 9's / 132 PSA 10's

Here's some info on 1967 Topps:

6/2004 Unknown cards graded / 4304 PSA 9's / 75 PSA 10's
4/2005 58,094 cards graded / 5331 PSA 9's / 123 PSA 10's

Here's some info on 1969 Topps:

6/2004 55,132 cards graded / 8947 PSA 9's / 382 PSA 10's
4/2005 68,558 cards graded / 11,016 PSA 9's / 485 PSA 10's

Here's some info on 1971 Topps:

08/2004 55,435 cards graded / 1859 PSA 9's / 36 PSA 10's
04/2005 63,816 cards graded / 2551 PSA 9's / 82 PSA 10's

And from the Nolan Ryan card front pops from 72-80 have, with the exception of 75 & 78, almost doubled in PSA 9, and prices for those years are down ~45%. 82-93 have exploded in PSA 10, making PSA 9's virtually worthless and anything else you might as well crack out and sell raw.

Scott J.

mcastaldi

Scott. . .thanks for providing the facts I didn't have.

Mike

sjeanblanc2

Mike,

No problem, I had some Pop spreadsheets that I had pulled last year to see what sets from the 60's and 70's might have some opportunities for a little profiteering. Then I got canned in Aug 04 and never used them.

Scott J.

gemint

<< <i>jrdolan> "So is the question of whether DSL gets some slack because they submit 243 bajillion cards a week."

While I'm not sure anyone outside of PSA can give a definitive answer, let's assume for a moment that the mega-submitters such as DSL and 4SC do indeed "get some slack". Why do you seem to imply this would be the fault of the dealer? They didn't grade their own cards. If a dealer asks a grading company for special treatment, isn't it up to the grading company to say yes or no?

Mike >>



I've purchased a handful of 1969 cards from DSL and they've all been short (top to bottom). I sent them into PSA and they said they were ok. I also cracked and crossed some over from SGC holders and they crossed ok. I'm guessing the cards are fine but I don't go out of my way to bid on those cards. I've also checked serial numbers adjacent to the cards they sell and they seem to be very adept at selecting MINT and GEM MINT cards to submit.

dakota

I have enjoyed reading the opinions of everyone on this post.By no means did I start this post as a bashing of PSA. 99.9% of the graded cards I own are in their holders and I feel they are the best of the grading companies to choose from but it is in my opinion that the graders DO know when they are grading DSLs cards.You know what I noticed on this post by their comments is the collectors that really know what they are looking at when the look at a piece of cardboard.And the collectors that dont have any idea what they are looking at other than the flip with the grade on it.
By all means its all about fun and being happy with the cards you own/buy/submit but a few dealers are getting very rich by submitting cards that most of us would never even submit.Read Gemmints last post a few more times and take a look at the cards DSL is selling.A vast majority are short and rattle around.Gemint is someone who knows what he is looking at along with the gaspipes,dgfs,castaldis,softparades
If I missed somebody I apologize.
Just who is DSL sportscards?Where is their website like the other big national dealers? Has anyone ever met the guy/people/girl???And yes I have heard the same old story passed along about a guy named Darrell pulling a suitcase around with lots of $$$.Do they ever post on these boards?
Do they set up at shows like some of the great dealers for example Paul Starxx,Mile high,set builders,Kyles cards etc?
Have anyone ever wondered when sending payment that their address/suite/po box??? is right down the street from PSA?
Have I ever purchased a card from them? Yes.
I think these are valid questions.

mcastaldi

Dakota> I agree with your statements. . .and many large submitters indeed send in cards that most of us would simply discard. But it's not the dealer that assigns the grades. . .so I really can't blame the dealer for selling a steaming pile encased in plastic. They're playing the game like everyone else. It's this dynamic which took all the fun out of building a PSA-graded set for me. That said, I am building a graded 1974 set and would love to get some input from you.

Mike

dakota

Mike,
Anytime you wanna talk 74s let me know and I have plenty of them laying around.

mcastaldi

Dakota> Send me a PM when you get a chance.

Mike

softparade

<< <i>Dakota> I agree with your statements. . .and many large submitters indeed send in cards that most of us would simply discard. But it's not the dealer that assigns the grades. . .so I really can't blame the dealer for selling a steaming pile encased in plastic. They're playing the game like everyone else. It's this dynamic which took all the fun out of building a PSA-graded set for me. That said, I am building a graded 1974 set and would love to get some input from you.

Mike >>



All the fun has been taken out? I don't believe you I have had my serious doubts about continuing with my 78 set in graded but I am addicted, so the point is mute with me

mcastaldi

Softparade> Re-read the last sentence - I AM building a graded 74 set. . .just not a PSA-graded 74 set.



Mike

Davino

<< <i>Softparade> Re-read the last sentence - I AM building a graded 74 set. . .just not a PSA-graded 74 set.



Mike >>



I have about 20 GAI 9's that I would consider selling, let me know if you would like a list.

mcastaldi

Davino> Right now I have about 15% of the set at my grading company of choice awaiting grades. I have another 200 or so submittable raw cards. Right now I'm primarily looking for super high end raw stuff. If you have some of that, I'd definitely be interested.

Mike

goudeygold

Hey guys,

If your worried about 10s and 9s saturating the market, come on over to pre-war!! There essentially are no 9s and 10s, and the 8s are insanely priced. In the past year and a half ATLEAST there hasn't been a single 38 goudey 8 or 9 graded and there are ZERO 10s. So.. come on down to vintage land, no worries about tens here!!

I think people are simply looking at their cards closer and learning what it takes from PSA to get the 9s and 10s. Where there is unopened products left, there will be an increase in high grade POPs. So it will continue on my friends and of course this puts pressure on the value.

GG

calleocho

gg-

I agree that pre-war its where all the action is but it is getting way out of hand money wise.

caramels cards, tabacco cards, goudeys specially are way up from just a few years ago. I am talking all grades here including mid grade and even low grade not just PSA 8 +

If a collector ( not an investor) wanted to do a 70's set right now would be about the best time to do so.

You could get a PSA 7/8 set 70's topps set for just a couple of grands, thats cheap!

I wouldnt call it a bargain, but it is cheap and fairly easy to complete. even in PSA 7 the cards are extremitly nice looking
and you can have a lot of fun and meet a lot of interesting collectors along the way.

As long as the collector understands that these cards will not increase in value drastically and may even drop in value, i think these large modern sets could be a lot of fun.