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How is this 61 Mantle not OC?

stevekstevek Posts: 29,034 ✭✭✭✭✭
in Trading Cards & Memorabilia Forum
How is this not OC? I've been looking to upgrade my 61 Mantle but it won't be with this card.

Link to 61 Mantle

Comments

  • stevekstevek Posts: 29,034 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Just looked at some of his other auctions. From selling calculators and computers, he sure suddenly came upon a bunch of PSA 8 & 9 key cards?
  • Stone193Stone193 Posts: 24,407 ✭✭✭✭✭
    image

    The card definitely pushes the envelope Steve. I wouldn't even give it an 8...based on the centering. And, I don't even believe this one falls into the area of esthetically pleasing - it's just not there IMO.

    And on what the guy sells? This is a new neighborhood for the guy?

    mike
    Mike
  • StingrayStingray Posts: 8,843 ✭✭✭
    Even the other 61 Mantle looks OC to me. Hard to tell buy the scans if corners are nice on the other cards.

    Stingray
  • MorrellManMorrellMan Posts: 3,240 ✭✭✭
    Over 800 bucks? That's a lot of money to pay for a holder and a rare flip.
    Mark (amerbbcards)


    "All evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
  • phreakydancinphreakydancin Posts: 1,691 ✭✭
    Definitely fishy. I don't think he stole the photos, unless he got them all from the same source, because they are consistent in their format.

    However, note the white background on the less-than-hi-res pictures. White backgrounds hide the frosted edges of opened PSA slabs.
  • goudeygoldgoudeygold Posts: 701 ✭
    The flips look doctored. That is in no way a 9. MAYBE 8OC, probably a 7.

    GG
  • jrdolanjrdolan Posts: 2,549 ✭✭
    Well, I always get the willies when someone goes from selling no cards or very cheap cards right to selling extremely expensive cards. This seller is making an abrupt career shift from electronics to high-end vintage cards. It might be legit, but also the real electronics guy may have fallen for one of those phishing e-mails and had his account stolen.

    As for that Mantle, I think if it's an unqualified 9 then a centered one would have been PSA 10! The cert. # checks out, and I don't see why a scammer would PhotoShop a different Mantle onto a stolen scan of a real PSA 9. Must be just barely on the edge of centering criteria for a 9.
  • shagrotn77shagrotn77 Posts: 5,586 ✭✭✭✭
    I'm glad I stumbled upon this thread because I have a funny/disturbing story about this seller. When her auctions were first posted on Thursday, I e-mailed asking for a scan of the back of the Cepeda rookie. Like so many other buyers, I always ask for a scan of the back of a card if I have any doubts that the seller is legit. Most of the time fraudsters who steal scans only have the front scans, not the back. Anyway, my first response was from a woman who said she has no further scans, she's selling the collection for husband, blah, blah, blah. Finding it odd that I couldn't get a scan of the back of the card sometime in the next 9 1/2 days, I replied and said, with making any accusations against the seller, that I wanted the scan to make sure she was really in possession of the card, because stolen scan auctions are a real problem on eBay. It's a way to better protect myself (the buyer). My red flags had gone up when I saw that the seller went from selling computers to selling high-dollar baseball cards overnight. Now I did get a scan of the back of the Cepeda card that seems to match up, BUT here is what this whackjob had to say (note the edited curse words were NOT edited in her e-mail to me):

    From: "legendary products" <legendaryproducts@hotmail.com>
    >To: legendaryproducts@hotmail.com
    >Subject: Re: Question for item #5183615359 - 1958 TOPPS #343 ORLANDO CEPEDA
    >ROOKIE PSA...
    >Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 18:58:54 -0400
    >
    >First of all, my husband and another Vintage Ebayer said thats as stupid as
    >it sounded to me.  They ask to see the back to see the back, not to be a
    >dumba$$.
    >
    >Secondly, who's being deceptive?  It sure sounds like a person requesting
    >to see a back to "serve as proof..."  blah blah blah as you put it, is both
    >deceptive and ignorant.  What freakin' good would it to to "sell" an item
    >you don't have (especially via paypal), and what freakin' good would it do
    >to see the back if the "seller" was going to burn you anyway.  Totally
    >stupid reasoning.
    >
    >Thirdly, I never said I couldn't "arrange" to have you see the back.  All
    >this s*** was listed, scanned  and packaged up to ship for me as well, and
    >I  didn't want to call him back over an email- BUT since you were asking
    >he's been here to do it.  The back is attached to this email for you.
    >
    >Fourthly, there's a real easy approach to your suspicions- don't bid!  Now
    >thats difficult.  Why the hell would anyone bid if they thought someone was
    >bogus.
    >
    >Fifthly, you and I both know damn well that we are legitimate and I have
    >enough stress w/out those kind of stupid insinuations.
    >
    >Its my card, its my scan, and I hardly have time to f*** around with bogus
    >scans lifted from a site- however the hell that would do anybody any good
    >anyway is beyond me.
    >
    >Good day
    >
    >
    >>From: ShagRotn77@aol.com
    >>To: legendaryproducts@hotmail.com
    >>Subject: Re: Question for item #5183615359 - 1958 TOPPS #343 ORLANDO
    >>CEPEDA ROOKIE PSA...
    >>Date: 4/9/2005 6:18:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time
    >>
    >>Many vintage baseball card collectors, such as myself, request to see the
    >>back of a card to serve as proof that the person selling it is in really
    >>in
    >>possession of it, and has not merely lifted a scan from another site. I'd
    >>find
    >>it odd if you can not arrange for me to see a scan of the back of the card
    >>sometime over the next seven days, especially since it should sell for a
    >>nice
    >>price.

    WOW!!! My first impulse, of course, was to send a nasty e-mail in return. But I took the high road, didn't reply at all, canceled my bids on her items, and moved on. Now I think she does have the cards. As for the cards that appear overgraded, I do not know. Buyer beware.

    Andy





    "My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
  • Stone193Stone193 Posts: 24,407 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Interesting story Andy
    And very entertaining! This person is a bit high strung about your issues. It is kind of interesting how - all of a sudden - high grade cards are being sold under these circumstances. Paypal does take some of the sting out of the sale - if you take the insurance, doesn't that protect a person if they take the money and run?

    mike
    Mike
  • phreakydancinphreakydancin Posts: 1,691 ✭✭
    Impressive use of the word "fifthly". image

    Still sounds fishy to me. Was the scan of the back also on a white background? Can you post the scan?
  • mudflap02mudflap02 Posts: 2,060 ✭✭
    Andy-

    It serves you right.
  • shagrotn77shagrotn77 Posts: 5,586 ✭✭✭✭
    Thanks for having my back Mudflap. LOL. I have the scan, but have no idea how to post it.
    "My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
  • Stone193Stone193 Posts: 24,407 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Thanks for having my back Mudflap. LOL. I have the scan, but have no idea how to post it. >>


    forward your scan to mesablanca1110@yahoo.com and I'll post it for you.

    mike
    Mike
  • jrdolanjrdolan Posts: 2,549 ✭✭
    More disturbing than the possibly bogus auctions is the thought that there are women who think and talk like that. Unless "she" is bogus, too.
  • stevekstevek Posts: 29,034 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Andy - Could you e-mail her back and ask her about that 61 Mantle that should be graded off-center? image
  • AllenAllen Posts: 7,165 ✭✭✭
    I just emailed and ask for scans of the backs of the 63 Mantle and the Jordan rookie...Just to see what I can get "her" blood pressure up too. They would get more bids if their listing and responses were more customer friendly. Also if you sold high end computer products and decided to sell some very high end condition sensitive baseball cards wouldn't you use one of your best scanners and produce high resolution images?
  • kengoldenisthedevilkengoldenisthedevil Posts: 25
    is it just me or do the majority of the cards "she" is selling not match their grades? something is fishy..I wonder if she has any relatives in san diego by the name of W. Iwag?
  • shagrotn77shagrotn77 Posts: 5,586 ✭✭✭✭
    Another red flag was raised in the fact that Pay Pal payment is expecetd within 2 days. This way no winning bidder who paid immediately and did not get what he was expecting has time to warn another winning bidder who may have decided to wait a week before paying. Maybe I'm just reading too much into it because most sellers want their money ASAP, but this too concerns me.
    "My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
  • AllenAllen Posts: 7,165 ✭✭✭
    Another valid point shagrotn77
    .

    It sure looks fishy. Even if they are legit they are going about selling them the wrong way and could have got more money f they weren't so
    funny about it.
  • pandrewspandrews Posts: 7,598 ✭✭✭
    wow, the dude has a PSA 9 jordan rc.. it gives me hope, because i just submitted one with similar centering, and I'm hoping for a 8OC or straight 7..

    edit - just got my Jordan grade back.. 9OC.. =)
    ·p_A·
  • Stone193Stone193 Posts: 24,407 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Scan of the back of the Cepeda card:

    image

    Mike
    Mike
  • SlabbedSlabbed Posts: 306
    image I would not touch those auctions with a ten foot pole.
  • TimeMachineTimeMachine Posts: 261
    I am with slabbed on this one.

    Oven is hot... do not touch.
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