New PCGS Pedigreeing policy for upgrade coins

WashqrtrsRme

Just read the new PCGS letter about pedigreeing upgrade coins. Basically, the letter says that when you send in an upgrade coin for pedigree, you will now also need to send the duplicate, lower grade coin along with it, so that the pedigree on that coin can be removed, i.e. so as to not have the same date in the set with 2 pedigreed coins. Well, unfortunately for me, or possibly fortunately (not sure how to take this) I have sold all my duplicate, lower grade pedigreed coins (probably about 70 of the 83 coins in my Washington set, since I pedigreed it in July of '02. I think as collectors, many of us aspire to update our sets with nicer, higher grade coins, which is what I have done since first pedigreeing my collection in July of '02.

So here's my situation.. I now have all these upgraded coins in my set without my pedigree on the holder. Is it worth the hasssle to send them all in, then explain to PCGS that I don't have the dup. dates for them to re-slab to remove the pedigree from them? Seems to me this is far more of a hassle than it is worth...how did things get so complcated? And who thought this up, geeze! It should seem obvious to PCGS that if we're sending in an upgrade coin for pedigree, that it's likey we might have already sold the duplicate. I have. It's almost like they are trying to control what we do with our old coins, at least I think so. We all upgrade coins sometimes, with duplicate-date coins for potential pedigree. I see this as a major hassle for those of us in the Registry, wanting to pedigree upgrade coins.

My take on this is this: I know my coins belong to me, period! When I initially had my set pedigreed, I did so because I thought it might be fun and enjoyable to see my pedigree on the holders, and also it gave me a sense of pride. It was neat to see the whole set pedigreed. Personally, I now think it is more of a hasssle than it is worth, and for every dupicate coin you pedigree, PCGS tacks on the $5. reholdering fee. I'm still in favor of PCGS grading and coins, but honestly, I won't buy into having 70+ upgraded coins re-holdered, then have them ask me where the old pedigree coins are to be reholdered. My old pedigreed dups. are here, there and everywhere...and it was my choice to sell them to whomever I wished. And some of the guys like seeing my pedigree on the coins I sell them. Now PCGS is saying we should not sell the pedigreed dups. before reslabbing them to remove the pedigree...that's bullsh*t and a big hassle!

Sure seems like things get more complcated at PCGS all the time, when it comes to doing what's right for us collectors. And they are in service to serve who? THEIR customers, Us, the collectors...oh yea, that's right, almost forgot!

I welcome any comments on this subject. No more sending in coins to be pedigreed for me! I will keep mine just the way they are!

Tom Schiera

cosmicdebris

Sounds like someone did not think this new policy all the way through to consider someone in your situation. ( I am sure there are many others )

wondercoin

Tom: I do sympathize for your pesonal situation and perhaps PCGS can work with you on resolving the situation to your satisfaction.

As an aside, I have always suggested to collectors to NOT pedigree their sets "midstream" (if ever at all). In one case, a collector not only pedrigreed the coins, but desired sequential numbers on all (83) Wash quarters. That led to a pop 1 becoming pop 2 for a while when the collector swapped out a pop 1 coin for a one grade under coin (which received the original serial number for the pop 1 coin and began to show as an MS67 in the system when it was only an MS66).

Even when a set is to be sold, it is often a difficult question whether the allure of old green holders and rattlers should be surrendered for fresh blue matching inserts with ones name on them.

Wondercoin

SportsModerator2

Tom,

E-mail your questions to the Set Registry crew at setregistry@collectors.com. They are probably the best people to address this question.

Carol

Colorfulcoins

Hey Tom, long time no hear from you on the Boards!

Re the Pedigree, you've been there done that and deciding you don't need to have your name up in hights on the inserts is probably the right thing to do. Maybe someday - when you're done <GRIN>.

WashqrtrsRme

To all,

Thank you for yor comments, all well understood and I appreciate them.

Mitch, your comments were well thought through, and I respect them. Thanks. Had I to do it over again, I would not have pedigreed the set, regardless of my set completion. I was, however, prompted by a dealer friend when I completed my set and then attained the no. 5 position status in the Registry. I took that advice, got my set pedigreed, and as all of us collectors who aspire to keep building their sets and keep on upgrading, my pedigree coins became fewer and fewer. If I ask myself this question: "is having my coins pedigreed really important to me/really matter that much anymore?" My knee-jerk reply and honest feelings are no, simply NO! Maybe if I had the no. 1 set (which I never will) if would matter, but at this point, I care more about the coins in my collection than what name, if any, the holders say on them. Are the pedigreed "Schiera Collection" coins going to really matter to anyone in 50 years from now...NOT likely...who was that guy?? Does it matter now? Not that much to me, honestly. It was neat when I first had the set pedigreed, but had I to do it over again, I'd decline to do it. I never knew I'd upgrade almost my entire set thereafter.

I am a coin collector first, and my passion for collecting never wains...just my pocketbook every now and then! Honestly, in the whole scheme of things, my name being on the holders is not going to attract anymore interest to a particular coin in my set if/when I sell it. If and when the day comes and I decide to sell my collection, what I want people to remember is the COIN in that holder, not what pedigree it has. I have spent the last 10 years (been collecting Washington quarters since I was a kid) striving to attain the very nicest coins I can find and afford for my Washington quarter collection. As many of my friends in the collecting community can tell you, I have replaced coins again and again, looking for the very finest coins I could find...I'm sort of a "second-string" Craig Norris....and I mean that will all due respect to Craig...he's a great collector and friend! And I LOVE them nice toners!

I think the best legacy we can hope for as collectors is that some people recognize the passion we have/had for this great hobby, and how some of us are driven to strive for perfection, perhaps being blessed with a decent eye, which certainly helps. I'm still amazed at how this hobby can comsume me for endless hours in looking at/building my set. I first started collecting coins when I was 10. My uncle was an electrician for Whitman Publishing company in Racine, Wisconsin. On my 10th bithrday, he got me a "Whitman collector set", came in a game size box with the Whitman read book, the blue folders for all the small change denominations and a magnifying glass...that was 1968, and I have been hooked ever since.

Do I love this hobby? ABSOLUTELY! Does having my name on a holder mater to me? Not anymore, but what is in the holder matters much! And as long as you have fun with the hobby and enjoy it, then you cannot ask for much more than that! And Craig H., you know me...not likely I will ever be done!

Tom S.

wondercoin

Tom: Very well said.

WASHINGTON QUARTER TALK:

As you know, one of the greatest (brilliant) set of MS Wash quarters ever assembled was the "Richard Green" collection. The set was pedigreed and looked wonderful as a matching set. I know he was very pruod of the collection. But, after it sold privately, the new owner wanted the slabs nameless (perhaps he wanted to show his mother his great coin collection and didn't want her asking who Richard green was Who knows the reason why beside the owner.

The old Richard Green collection came up for auction in a Heritage sale a short time ago and no mention was even made to the coins originating from the RG collection. IMHO, that may have even hurt prices a bit in that sale - I know I bought some coins from the collection well under my max bids as typical "white" coins sold for little premiums even if nice.

Also, let's say one has built a magificent collection of high end coins - the kind of collection one might be proud to have pedigreed. So, what happens next? Easy - the upgraders get to work over the next couple years upgrading many of the greatest coins AND AFTER THEY ARE UPGRADED THE PEDIGREE INFORMATION IS OFTEN LOST (INTENTIONALLY AT TIMES BY THE UPGRADERS WHO MIGHT PREFER NO LINKAGE TO A LOWER GRADE WHEN TRYING TO MARKET THE FRESH POP 1 OR POP 2 COIN). Over the years, the great high end collection becomes a victim to the upgrading and what often remains are many of the average to low end specimens which circulate from auction to auction for years to come with ones name on the holders. The great coins are often lost in the eyes of most collectors and dealers (although the sharpest collectors and dealers will remember where a number of the great coins came from).

In the end, finding a pedigreed coin from an old-time great pedigreed collection becomes sort of a collection of its own. For example, of the roughly (100) or fewer coins RG pedigreed before selling the collection, I would estimate fewer than (10) coins remain pedigreed today (just a few years later). Perhaps the same number or slightly higher for the great John Benbow quarter collection as well may exist today.

Wondercoin

badger

We talk all the time about the segmented market of high end v. common coins. Pedigree is another market segment. Some like it, some not. I like a coin with a good story in addition to great eye appeal. Who owned the coin? Where was it found? Was it on a shipwreck? Was it part of a top collection? Did my grandfather and I find it? Was it in an old button jar? Was it pictured in a reference book? These add flavor and uniqueness to the coin as much as toning or top poppedness.

The pedigree is an advantage for some market segments. Value is increased. It helps justify the pursuit of the registry sets. I believe we should be able to keep the pedigree on the prior coin as the spot in the collection is upgraded. Your collection has to be in the top five to get access to pedigree, so the prior coins are not junk. This is not going to flood the market with pedigreed coins as there is a limit to how many you can upgrade after already being in the top five.

I am about to get my collection pedigreed. So, I have not been through the complete cycle as some on the board. For now, it is exciting. I am just making sure that each of the coins are really worth the distinction.

I would appreciate PCGS reconsidering their new policy after hearing from the collectors.

fcloud

I had sent in three gradings in one shipment. All three had some of my Mercury dimes in them. One was for reholder service, one for free gradings, and one grading I paid for. All three were received on 2/7/05. The two of the orders they pedigreed my dimes, the third one they didn't. Two were turned around with in 15 days and the order where they didn't pedigree I just picked up at the post office. I guess the change took place within that time frame. I have sold off some of my pedigreed coins, so I wonder how they handle that. Does it mean I can never upgrade the coins I have sold off? I also wonder what the big deal is if you own more than one of the same coin with a pedigree on it. Anyone who buys a pedigreed coin can have the pedigree removed, so what's the beef?

Mark

Personally, I, too, wish PCGS would reconsider. The pedigree is part of the coin's history. The pedigree says that at one time, the coin resided within what was, at that time, a top 5 set.

I have a few Stokely dimes that he sold after he up-graded them. I truly enjoy having his name on the coins because I think his tastes in coins and my taste in coins are very similar. Indeed, if I saw a picture of an ex-Stokely dime that I liked, I would make a special effort to buy it because I figure that if I like the picture, I'll really love the coin. And that fact is true regardless of whether or not Stokely utlimately up-graded the dime.

Mark

MoneyLA

tom, there are in fact many "alan mendelson" pedigreed washington proofs circulating around as I updated my collection several times before finally selling it. It would probably be impossible for me to arrange to have the current holders of the previous "alan mendelson registry set" coins to return their coins for reslabbing if I ever wanted to creat another proof washington registry set.

I understand and agree with your frustration and I hope that they change their new policy.

Actually Im surprised they would want to reslab the coins you are upgrading.

And I agree that once a coin is pedigreed it should stay pedigreed.

cheers, alan mendelson