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Got my grades back

The grades came back from my collectors club free submission.

LINE # CERT # CARD CARD CO. CARD # CARD NAME VARIETY GRADE
1 31079376 1982 TOPPS 434 LAWRENCE TAYLOR ALL-PRO 9
2 31079377 1981 TOPPS 240 NOLAN RYAN N/A 9
3 31079378 1981 TOPPS 479 EXPOS FUTURE STARS T.RAINES/R.RAMOS/B.PATE 8
4 31079379 2001 TOPPS CHR. TRADED T266 ICHIRO SUZUKI RETROFRACTOR 9
5 31079380 1955 TOPPS 2 TED WILLIAMS N/A 6
6 31079381 1956 TOPPS 30 JACKIE ROBINSON N/A 3

Date Received: 03/30/2005
Date of Grades Posted: 04/08/2005
Date Shipped: 04/08/2005


My guesses were Taylor 8, Ryan 9, Raines 10, Ichiro 9, Williams 5, Robinson 4. I sure thought the Jackie Robinson was better than a three but that shows what I know. I even went over the Raines rookie with a 10x loupe and could find no defects... Oh well I'm still pleased. I'll try to post a scan of all the cards. Mean while here are "raw" pics of Ryan and Raines:


image

Comments

  • flash2flash2 Posts: 100
    congratulations,like to see the williams.too bad about the robinson.all in all the oldies did well.
  • phreakydancinphreakydancin Posts: 1,691 ✭✭
    Tough luck on the Raines. It looks like a blazer from your scan.
  • any idea why you got an 8 on the raines?
  • No clue MajorDanby. I would have never sent it in if I didn't think it was a solid 9 but oh well we live and learn.
  • PSA should offer a service where you pay $1 extra per card to get an explanation of why a card got the grade it did. Even if it was just a post-it with a couple words on it, I think a lot of people would pay that extra $1, especially since it'd really help give us an insight into the grading process and improve our ability to predict a card's grade before sending it in.
  • Brian48Brian48 Posts: 2,624 ✭✭✭
    The is another good argument for implementing some sort of sub-grading system like BGS. It may not tell the whole story, but at least it will point you in the right location so you can look for yourself. Of course, all PSA-zealots will jump down your throat for even suggesting it.
  • DaBigHurtDaBigHurt Posts: 1,066 ✭✭
    I don't see why PSA should explain anything to the submitters. Their job is not to explain the grade. Their job is to grade. You submit, they grade and you accept the grade. For them to start explaining grades, including silly things like subgrades will only slow down the process. PSA has graded over EIGHT MILLION cards and their formula is working quite well.

    PSA has a guideline on their grades and consistently stick to that. If you get a card back graded 8, then take a look at their standards for the grade and you have your answer.

    People who want subgrades should stick with those incompetent clowns at BGS.

    Judging from the scan, the Tim Raines rookie looks like an 8 to me. I don't see any problem with the grade PSA assigned.
    image

    GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
  • brian...BGS got it right by doing subgrades. If PSA didnt want to do subgrades on their holders, they could attach perhaps a brief explanation as to how the card was graded.
  • DaBigHurtDaBigHurt Posts: 1,066 ✭✭


    << <i>brian...BGS got it right by doing subgrades. If PSA didnt want to do subgrades on their holders, they could attach perhaps a brief explanation as to how the card was graded. >>



    NO NO NO NO NO!

    I'm quite frankly sick and tired of people trying to undermine the integrity of PSA. They're fine and their customers are happy with the product. It's a win-win situation! They are paid to grade cards! not explain to you why your card graded the way it did!

    If you go to a doctor and he tells you that you have cancer. Do you ask him how this cancer came about? NO! You just accept that you have cancer and enjoy whatever days you have remaining! Don't ask the doctor to explain something to you that you wouldn't understand. That's not his job!

    People send in cards to PSA for grading because they're not very good at grading. If they knew how to grade cards in the first place, there would be no need for PSA! You want to learn to grade cards like the trained and certified experts at PSA, go take a course. For PSA to have to take the time to educate all these people would be a tremendous waste of valuable resources.

    Sorry for jumping at you, but I'm really sick and tired of people tryin to make PSA explain their business practices. They're doing a great job and should be commended, not taken to task over trivial things such as subgrades and notes to explain grades.
    image

    GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
  • I don't personally like the subgrading idea, but in the case of this Raines card it'd be nice to know what imperfection(s) they found. When they grade our cards, they are basically indirectly telling us what our cards are worth. If you go to sell your car to a used car lot and they tell you your car is worth less than you think...are you going to say "oh ok" just because they are the experts in used car value? No, you'll at least want an explanation for their lower stated value. That doesn't mean you're going to argue with their explanation (they probably see something you don't).

    DaBigHurt - you say the card looks like an 8 to you, which would mean to me that you see something in the card that prevents it from being a 9 or 10. What do you see as a possible reason?
  • dabighurt,You sure are defensive. What's wrong with a little constructive critisisum?I would think PSA would welcome any kind of new ideas from there customers.No company regardless of where they stand on the totem pole should ever be content at where they are,They should always be looking for new ways to improve themselves and to satisfy their customers.

    Jake
  • Brian48Brian48 Posts: 2,624 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I don't see why PSA should explain anything to the submitters. Their job is not to explain the grade. Their job is to grade. You submit, they grade and you accept the grade. For them to start explaining grades, including silly things like subgrades will only slow down the process. PSA has graded over EIGHT MILLION cards and their formula is working quite well.

    PSA has a guideline on their grades and consistently stick to that. If you get a card back graded 8, then take a look at their standards for the grade and you have your answer.

    People who want subgrades should stick with those incompetent clowns at BGS.

    Judging from the scan, the Tim Raines rookie looks like an 8 to me. I don't see any problem with the grade PSA assigned. >>



    That's just idiotic. I can't believe how much of a sheep you are. Yes, their job is too grade, and as a paying customer, I have a right to know why a certain grade was assigned if I don't agree with it. How would you know whether or not providing the customer with some type of quick and ready explanation of the assigned grade would slow things down? You're reaching here.

    Also, your "cancer" analogy is absolutely stupid and insulting. Having several members of my family go through this hell, the doctor does not just say "Oh, you got cancer. Sorry about that. See you next visit.". When breaking the news to a patient, they try to educate the patient in the illness, whether it's cancer or something else, then go into length explanation of their treatment options. That's just a dumbazz analogy.

    Also, seeing as you're obviously an "expert" at this, just what is it about the Raines that justifies an 8 that you can spot from the scan that we can't? Hmmm. Oh get it, just because PSA says so.
  • Couldnt have said it better myself............
  • CDsNutsCDsNuts Posts: 10,092
    Has anyone ever read one of DaBigTool's posts and actually thought: "Wow, that makes sense. Very insightful." Makes you wonder what his motivation is when nobody in the history of this board has ever agreed with anything he's had to say. Oh, and forgive me if this is over the line, but after his analogy comparing card grading to getting cancer, my hope would be that he will come down with some sort of comparable life-threatening illness so he can see how much of an insensitive idiot he truly is.

    Lee
  • mudflap02mudflap02 Posts: 2,060 ✭✭
    I would like to reinforce my opinion that DaBigHurt is the one poster I most respect on these boards. He sticks to his guns, even when his back is to the wall. The raines card looks like an 8 to me as well.


  • << <i>If you go to a doctor and he tells you that you have cancer. Do you ask him how this cancer came about? NO! You just accept that you have cancer and enjoy whatever days you have remaining! Don't ask the doctor to explain something to you that you wouldn't understand. That's not his job! >>



    That's not a very good analogy. Comparing a diagnosis of cancer to a diagnosis of an 8 in card grading is ludicrous. In the case of Cancer, doctor's REALLY do not know what might have caused it (outside of heavy drinkers, smokers and those with a history of the malignancy in their families). In the case of card grading, PSA/SGC/GAI/BGS know exactly WHY that card is not an 8 and not a 9 or 10.



    << <i>Sorry for jumping at you, but I'm really sick and tired of people tryin to make PSA explain their business practices. They're doing a great job and should be commended, not taken to task over trivial things such as subgrades and notes to explain grades. >>



    No problem. My point is that i paid for my cards to get graded....it would be nice to know why the cards got the grades they did...maybe not specifically, but in general like BGS does. As a consumer, you have the right to quality service...because without the consumer, business becomes non-existant. So, it's in the best interest of a company to hear what their consumers are suggesting and wanting because we are in a free market society...making monopolies (at least in most cases...excuse major sports industries, microsoft and energy) nonexistant.
  • We now have two people saying the card looks like an 8. What is the imperfection that is being seen? I realize the card may have imperfections that we can't see in the scan that warranted an 8, but all these two people have seen is the scan and so there's something in the scan that's making them say "this card is not a 9 or 10". I'm just curious what is being seen because I myself am not very knowledgeable of this grading process and would like to learn a thing or two if there truly is something in this scan that keeps it from being higher than an 8.
  • Relax. Its all opinion and not fact. There have been people on these boards that have cracked out 5's and resubmitted them and have them come back with an 8. Though it is a very flawed system, it works 90% of the time. Maybe with the volume being done, graders are getting bonuses for turnouts. As long as human opinion is involved, it will always be a flawed system...
  • jayhawkejayhawke Posts: 1,306 ✭✭✭
    I was going to be disappointed if I didn't read a post from DaBigHurt, in CAPS. My weekend hasn't even started, but I already feel complete.
  • DaBigHurtDaBigHurt Posts: 1,066 ✭✭
    I apologize for the cancer analogy. To people who have been affected by cancer, I'm very sorry for offending you.




    It's very difficult to grade a card EXACTLY via a scan, but if I were to guess at why the Raines came back an 8; it'd be because the borders aren't orange enough. image

    The graders at PSA were able to hold the card in their hands, examine it and after exhausting examination, determined the card did not meet the requirements of being a 9. That's good enough for me. image





    image

    GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
  • BuccaneerBuccaneer Posts: 1,794 ✭✭


    << <i>I was going to be disappointed if I didn't read a post from DaBigHurt, in CAPS. My weekend hasn't even started, but I already feel complete. >>



    Me too, as well as reading the posts from those that don't get it. image
  • softparadesoftparade Posts: 9,276 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I would like to reinforce my opinion that DaBigHurt is the one poster I most respect on these boards. He sticks to his guns, even when his back is to the wall. The raines card looks like an 8 to me as well. >>



    image

    ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240

  • Wow! I'm glad my post was able to "stir a few pots". Just for the record I'm not paticularyly pleased with the 8 the Raines card got but I'll accept it. After all it's only an opinion of a grader. I could resubmit it and maybe get a 9 or maybe a 7. Bottom line is the card is an 8 and I'll live with that.

    When the card arrives back from PSA I'll post an oversized scan of the front and back and maybe we can cross this bridge again.

    Thanks for all the great replies. Keep it coming!
  • phreakydancinphreakydancin Posts: 1,691 ✭✭


    << <i>I don't see why PSA should explain anything to the submitters. Their job is not to explain the grade. Their job is to grade. You submit, they grade and you accept the grade. For them to start explaining grades, including silly things like subgrades will only slow down the process. PSA has graded over EIGHT MILLION cards and their formula is working quite well. >>

    Big Hurt, are you at all familiar with the term VALUE ADDED PRODUCT? The proposal was to PAY PSA EXTRA MONEY to deliver an explanation for the grade delivered. You should be frigging WETTING YOUR PANTS at the prospect of more money coming into your company. Maybe you should open your mind to the concept of CHANGE rather than blindly verbally fellating your beloved PSA at every opportunity. Believe it or not NO GRADING COMPANY IS PERFECT, and all of them need to understand the needs and desires of their target market and adapt accordingly in order to maximize profitability.

    News flash: grading eight million cards does not necessarily make you good at it, yet you seem to think this is the be-all-end-all statement to prove grading superiority. How about trying to put up a substantive argument rather than constantly spewing out thoughtless rhetoric.



    << <i>Judging from the scan, the Tim Raines rookie looks like an 8 to me. I don't see any problem with the grade PSA assigned. >>

    Specifically, WHAT do you see in that scan that would knock it down to an 8? I'm dying to know image

    Edited to add: Big Hurt, I think it's time to change your user icon. Try this:
    image
  • As far as the 8 goes, anyone else notice the slight discoloration of the black border directly to the right of the pink hat? I'm not sure if that's a scanner related issue or not but it kind of jumped out at me when I looked at the card.

    I'm not really in favor of subgrades. That would just make things even more subjective than people already claim they are. Can you imagine if we were having this conversation over the card's surface grade receiving an 8? It'd be a whole new can of worms.
  • EagleEyeKidEagleEyeKid Posts: 4,496 ✭✭
    I luv the BigHurt. He cracks me up. I actually enjoy reading his posts now because he p*sses everyone off.
  • pandrewspandrews Posts: 7,598 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I luv the BigHurt. He cracks me up. I actually enjoy reading his posts now because he p*sses everyone off. >>



    i agree..
    ·p_A·
  • Stone193Stone193 Posts: 24,407 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Shambo
    Could you do a high resolution scan of the Raines and "link" it rather than posting so we don't eat the screen?

    I find it hard to tell from the scan what grade to definitely assign.

    thanx
    mike
    Mike
  • Stone, I'll have to wait until I get it back from PSA but I'll be glad to link a high res. scan.
  • I finally got the cards back from PSA. I've got links below to all the cards including a high resolution scan of the Raines Rookie. The Ryan and Williams will be going in my HOF registry set as place holders but the others can be had so feel free to make an offer.

    Robinson and Williams

    Taylor, Ichiro and Ryan

    Raines Rookie

    Shannon
    shambo2000
  • wolfbearwolfbear Posts: 2,759 ✭✭✭

    Upper right corner of the Raines card looks weak and most likely kept it out of a 9 holder.

    And everybody quit picking on DaBigHurt.
    He and I have enjoyed many a glass of refreshing kool-aid together. imageimage

    Pix of 'My Kids'

    "How about a little fire Scarecrow ?"
  • DaBigHurtDaBigHurt Posts: 1,066 ✭✭
    Yup, there is no doubt the upper right corner is definitely weak.

    I wonder if the PSA bashers who were condemning PSA will admit they were the ones who were wrong. Not likely, but it's good to see PSA get the grade right. Or do these people still need PSA to explain why the Raines got a 8 instead of a 9?

    image

    Bottom line is, PSA grades, you accept it. If you don't know why your cards received the grades they got, that's not PSA's fault. image
    image

    GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
  • Just a quick reply to DaBigHurt. I never said I didn't accept the grade. I do, and believe that PSA is the best in the business. I started this post to get feedback from the board and appreciate everyone's responses. Even you, DaBigHurt image

    Shannon
  • Stone193Stone193 Posts: 24,407 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hi Shambo
    I agree with the Wolfman, if looking at the card horizontally, the upper right corner does not look as sharp as the rest of the corners.

    Overall, I think you did real well - congratulations on the 9s and I hope your next submission is a good one!

    mike
    Mike
  • In regards to dabighurt, does nobody here recognize and appreciate satire? Come on folks! Keep on posting BigHurt! I hope to keep reading until your EIGHT MILLIONTH POST!
    Mark
    "Pete Rose would walk through hell in a gasoline suit to play baseball." - Sparky Anderson
  • Stone193Stone193 Posts: 24,407 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>In regards to dabighurt, does nobody here recognize and appreciate satire? Come on folks! Keep on posting BigHurt! I hope to keep reading until your EIGHT MILLIONTH POST! >>


    Mark
    I agree but satire is like Vicodin - when taken in constant dosage, it loses its potency.

    Stone
    Mike
  • I haven't been on the board long so I don't know DaBigHurt well enough to know whether or not he frequently uses satire. However, I can say that I would've never thought it was satire until someone mentioned it. Either that makes me not very good at recognizing satire or it makes DaBigHurt's attempt at satire pretty poor (after all, is a joke really any good if no one can tell it's a joke?). Plus, there's the added difficulty of the typewritten word...no inflection so it's tougher to recognize sarcasm.
  • Brian48Brian48 Posts: 2,624 ✭✭✭
    Once again, before Hurt's lame attempts at humor sidetracks the topic at hand, the issue is not whether or not PSA made an error in grading, but rather we would have liked to have known how the grade was derived. The fact of the matter of is, there was no way you could tell it was the right, upper corner that kept this card from getting a better grade using the original scan. I don't believe anyone here who said the card "looked like an 8" spotted the real reason until the second scan was posted. I am still a proponent that PSA should offer some type of comment, explanation, or sub-grade system to give us more information on the grade. Granted, for something like this, it may be obvious, but there has been numerous examples in the past where it's not.
  • CDsNutsCDsNuts Posts: 10,092
    Yeah, what notowell said- ditto for me. The thing is, it's not funny. Actually it's annoying. He's like that guy who always tells jokes that go nowhere and aren't funny, and half the time no one recognizes them as jokes. Has anybody really ever laughed at one of his posts? Even a chuckle? Seems like the only enjoyment anybody gets out of it are when people like me who are relatively new to the boards blast the guy because we have no frame of reference (he has never posted anything serious since I've been here), therefore think he's serious. I'm going back on my opinion- now I believe that Hurt is a little bit less of a tool- and I mean a real little bit.

    Lee
  • DaBigHurtDaBigHurt Posts: 1,066 ✭✭
    image
    image

    GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
  • ctsoxfanctsoxfan Posts: 6,246 ✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>In regards to dabighurt, does nobody here recognize and appreciate satire? Come on folks! Keep on posting BigHurt! I hope to keep reading until your EIGHT MILLIONTH POST! >>


    Mark
    I agree but satire is like Vicodin - when taken in constant dosage, it loses its potency.

    Stone >>





    Amen!
    image
  • pandrewspandrews Posts: 7,598 ✭✭✭
    image
    ·p_A·
  • Does DaBigHurt receive a kickback from PSA for each one of his ignorant posts? If so please let me know how much they pay. I have a lot of free time and could use the extra cash. I think if they paid me I could drink the PSA Kool-Aid and completely lose my objectivity. I could then sit for hours and pray at the PSA alter, and marvel at their complete infallibility and perfection.

    Always looking for High Grade Pete Rose @ Mint 1975 Topps
  • BuccaneerBuccaneer Posts: 1,794 ✭✭


    << <i>Does DaBigHurt receive a kickback from PSA for each one of his ignorant posts? If so please let me know how much they pay. I have a lot of free time and could use the extra cash. I think if they paid me I could drink the PSA Kool-Aid and completely lose my objectivity. I could then sit for hours and pray at the PSA alter, and marvel at their complete infallibility and perfection. >>



    What part of the word "satire" did you not understand?

    I don't know if I agree with the notion that too much of a satire becomes bad. He does chose his spots and it is always in cases where valid concerns about PSA and their practices arise. That's the genius of DaBH's responses because one can clearly hear the words of a defense that rings hollow.

    But in the end, most of us do believe in PSA despite their imperfections. For my collection, I wouldn't have it any other way.
  • Stone193Stone193 Posts: 24,407 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>But in the end, most of us do believe in PSA despite their imperfections. For my collection, I wouldn't have it any other way. >>


    Buc
    I agree and most of us can see that DaBig is just having fun - but sometimes it creates unnecessary tension when people are just asking questions and the "satire" rings of argumentative tripe that stiffles the conversation and derails a healthy debate. I think that is where people may get tired of his rhetoric.

    nuje
    Mike
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