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Help me choose which of these 2 Mercury Dimes to keep for my set


PREFACE: The PCGS holders of both coins are smudgy/yucky -- there is no cloudiness/softness to either coin.

OK. Here's the scoop. I've had the first dime (Dime #1) in my set for a while now.

Dime #1 image


And now I have this second one (Dime #2).

Dime #2 image


On the merits of either coin, as fellow collectors, which of these 2 would you put in to your set?

Thanks,
Mike.

Comments

  • FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,424 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The Type of 17 coin has the better strike but the Type of 16 coin has better color. Keep both and switch off from time to time....image

    Edit to add: I hope I am seeing what I think I am.

    Ken
  • fcloudfcloud Posts: 12,133 ✭✭✭✭
    Mike,

    I like coin 1 better. Better Color! It looks more natural to me.


    That scratch by "B" on coin 2 is a distraction.

    President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay

  • mercurydimeguymercurydimeguy Posts: 4,625 ✭✭✭✭

    What kind of answer is that? That's like going to a shrink and having them ask you questions that you already know answers to, having you answer them yourself and giving you a bill when they're done -- although you haven't sent me a bill image
  • FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,424 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>What kind of answer is that? That's like going to a shrink and having them ask you questions that you already know answers to, having you answer them yourself and giving you a bill when they're done -- although you haven't sent me a bill image >>



    You talking "at" me or Tony ?????

    Ken
  • mercurydimeguymercurydimeguy Posts: 4,625 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i> That scratch by "B" on coin 2 is a distraction. >>



    In all fairness, that's on the holder. Both holders are pretty yucky. The first one does have nice color, though.
  • mercurydimeguymercurydimeguy Posts: 4,625 ✭✭✭✭
    You talking "at" me or Tony ?????

    You talkin' to me...are you talkin' to me??? image Yeah, you image

    BTW -- interesting to see/have in hand two different dies of the 17-D
  • FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,424 ✭✭✭✭✭
    How weak is the bottom diagonal on the top coin ? Is it just the picture ? That is what I will make your decision on. Even though I like color I really do hate a weak strike in that area. The luster looks about the same on both coins. True ?

    Ken
  • mercurydimeguymercurydimeguy Posts: 4,625 ✭✭✭✭
    The diagonal is totally full on the first coin -- there is a giant cloud on the darn holder right in that area, and there was no way I could have shot the picture around it without tilting the coin so bad that it would like some of those coins you see on eBay image

    The luster on the second coin is far superior -- it was so bright I had to tweak it down a bit in editing or the picture would have looked funky. The luster on the entire coin is more like the reverse.

    Also, the first coin has a few noticable hits on miss lib.
  • FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,424 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You need a container of this to clean those funky looking slabs up with. Actually any paste window cleaner will work. Get this done and then I will make a decision after seeing a new picture. ................image

    image

    Just Funnin with you Mike. If the top coin has a strong diagonal its my pick.

    Ken
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,162 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Piping up as a non expert on the series... I would take the second coin. In general, I don't like plain white, but it appears much more lustrous and less ticky than the first coin. The hint of color on the first coin is not primo enough to make up for the lack of luster.
  • mercurydimeguymercurydimeguy Posts: 4,625 ✭✭✭✭

    Maybe I'll try Ken's suggestion, and clean these slabs and re-take some more pics.

  • dunerlawdunerlaw Posts: 387 ✭✭
    The strike on the bands and reverse letters is very simular.
    The first coin has 5 tics on the face and neck. I see none on the second.
    Also you said the luster is better on the second.
    If they are the same current condition,
    I would definately keep the second coin.
    Larry
  • fcloudfcloud Posts: 12,133 ✭✭✭✭
    I thought the scratch was on the rim.

    I still prefer dime 1.

    President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay

  • the 2nd coin has a better strike and I would keep it
    Tim
    LOOKING FOR 1931-s merc that is nice for the grade and fb
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The right side of the band on coin 1 looks a touch weak, but I'll bet that is the haze on the plastic covering that. I normally prefer the toned coin and just hate conserved coins. But it seems that #2 is more market acceptable.

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • mercurydimeguymercurydimeguy Posts: 4,625 ✭✭✭✭
    Tim,

    You're right -- Dime #2 has a better strike then Dime #1. Also, Dime #1 has a small hit on Miss Lib and other minor abrasions on the front. The reverse of Dime #2 is also far better than Dime #1. Lightly tone, with cartwheel luster.

    Decisions, decisions ... image

    Mike.
  • orevilleoreville Posts: 12,024 ✭✭✭✭✭
    mercurydimeguy:

    Always happens. You ask two collectors what to do with your two coins; which one to keep and you get three answers!image

    I like the picture of the first one even though it is softly struck but agree that 51.478428% of the collectors will prefer the second one. On a given day I might switch votes myself.

    Sort of Miller vs. Bud or Pepsi vs. Coke.

    Perhaps you show them in person to a few collectors as that will be more valued to you since our opinions are so mixed.
    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
  • marcmoishmarcmoish Posts: 6,305 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hi Mike,

    personally I like the eye appeal of the first dime - but it does look like it's got facial issues including dings on cheek. The 2nd looks like it was washed - jmho but the first looks more original.

    BTW, you bet your tuches you should clean those slabs first before offering such a potent question image

    I'd suggest BRASSO (metal polish multi purpose) available in certain hardware stores and chains etc. Try it for about 5 minutes on the slab back and front and wipe clean with towel paper - make sure to wear gloves or just wash up afterwords. If FIVE minutes is not enough try 10 next time.



    Marc
  • mercurydimeguymercurydimeguy Posts: 4,625 ✭✭✭✭

    Thanks for the advice, Marc. I tried Soft Scrub but it did (basically) nothing. I'll look for that BRASSO stuff tomorrow. I'm in no hurry since I own both the dimes. Just trying to figure out which one will be a part of the set and which one will be an extra.

    Mike.
  • orevilleoreville Posts: 12,024 ✭✭✭✭✭
    mercurydime: You could always swap the girls each week.

    No one will tell your wife. image
    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
  • mercurydimeguymercurydimeguy Posts: 4,625 ✭✭✭✭
    Oreville, that's really funny image

    I have a bit of a confession to make -- and the real source of my angst. I much prefer Dime #2 over Dime #1 -- it is (subjectively speaking) very obvious in hand. Now here's the problem:

    Dime #1 image

    Dime #2 image

    This year I've spent $1000's of dollars on getting Mercs graded and can share with you my recent experiences -- PCGS has been grading Mercs 1-3 points lower this year than they were last year. Something is going on -- either they are getting MUCH stricter or David needs to sit down with his graders.

    I wouldn't have even asked for input on these two dimes had they both been graded equally. And frankly, I'm sick of paying extra fees to send dimes in for regrading over and over (although on regrades this year some have come back at a higher grade). It's as if there's some kind of mandate that key and semi-key Mercs get stuck in a lower graded holder because either the collector will send it back in again (and PCGS will make more $$$), or eventually the collector will sell it to a dealer who'll send it back in and try to get the coin in to a higher graded holder (either way paying PCGS more $$$). I know this is pure B.S. speak/conjecture on my part -- but most people don't complain when they buy undergraded coins so if I was PCGS I'd grade everything lower, knowing people would resubmit and I'd make more $$...eventually, maybe after 2-3 submits I'd grade it properly. Since they don't regrade for free, and if they did regrade for free there would never be any incentive for them to bump a coin higher -- in essence they have no incentive to really do due dilligence on a coin the first time / grading it properly the first time around, so they err on the lower side figuiring that the worst thing that can happen is that they'd make more $$ on resubmissions.

    So I've spilled the beans -- I hate to even contemplate keeping a coin I like less because it is in a higher graded holder, while not keeping the coin I like better (and should-be higher or equally graded coin).

    So the real question I really wanted to ask (for opinions)...should I sell out and keep Dime #1 in my set; should I keep Dime #2 and be a REAL collector (because I do like Dime #2 better) -- and at the same time stop fighting the system and send in Dime #2 for regrading (uuuurrrggghh...at the thought of paying PCGS 2x -- yet again -- for a job that should've been done right the first time).

    Thanks for your patience.
  • FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,424 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Mike

    I will reserve my comments untill a few other people comment, if they do. Right at the moment I am completely disgusted with some of the grading and ethical problems within the hobby.

    Not only grading standards come to my mind with PCGS but something that also really eats at my craw is their standards for a PCGS authorized dealer. Lately it almost seems like it is 1988 again within the hobby.

    Ken
  • marcmoishmarcmoish Posts: 6,305 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Mike,


    A few months ago I found out the hard way too the disparity with consistancy at PCGS ( likely same with NGC too) I had a few Merc's that IMHO were lock one grade higher - I'm usually quite fussy and conservative so you know I'm not talking hype - the dimes were NOT cracked out - gave in existing PCGS holders - I got them all back new slabs but same grade. Needless to say each of us needs to FEEL the pain or rejection or we'll never know the feeling - I have been posting for the longest time the crack out and upgrade game sucks and a farce and a slap in our wallets - but I fell in at the moment and I too felt the pain.
    I was especially peeved as I've seen a number of similar dates all graded same as mine - however they trully were inferior and bordering on graded while exhibiting rapid insane moments image
    I totally understand how you feel ~~~~~~~~~~

    Regarding your dimes - the first one LOOKS 64 and has nicer eye appeal - the 2md one does look 63 - personally I do not feel it will grade 64 - but that IJMHO image If the 2nd dime MATCHES your look and like I'd keep the 2nd though.

    Marc
  • mercurydimeguymercurydimeguy Posts: 4,625 ✭✭✭✭

    Thanks to everyone for all the input. I've decided to keep Dime #1 for my set, but what made the decision easier was I met with a fellow Merc collector this morning and he needed a 17-D for his set and Dime #2 matched his set well. I decided to part with Dime #2 (and keep Dime #1) because I felt a little better (at least) knowing that Dime #2 was going to a fellow collector, who by the way agreed that he didn't see a reason why there was a grade disparity on the dimes. If anything, where Dime #1 had its merits on originality Dime #2 was technically better graded (no hits, marks, etc.), so in a "net grade" scenario they should be equally graded.

    Again, thanks to all for chiming in and helping me make my decision.

    I was sharing with Ken (off-line) that I have a bunch of Merc orders in grading now and I'm anxious to see how they fair. This is my last ditch effort to see if the recent low-grading of key/semi-key Mercs was a temporal issue or if there's a mindset change at PCGS and they will grade Mercs much stricter...at least for the foreseeable future. Two of these orders in for grading are Presidential reviews that I sent to David directly. The right thing to do on these Presidential reviews would be to either downgrade 2 coins or upgrade 2 others -- David is going to have to make that call -- because I just don't see how a professional numismatist can say "I agree with the given grades" on the Presidential review coins. I, as an avid Merc collector, would have a hard time rationaliziing/internalizing the Presidential review coins coming back at their given grades. On one order there is a 2 grade point disparity on 3 coins (1 is graded 2 points higher than the other 2), which I just don't see (maybe 1?? if that), and the other order is one coin in a 66FB holder and the other coin is in a 67FB holder -- and they should be the opposite (the 66FB should be 67FB and the 67FB should be a 66FB). I'll keep you posted towards mid-month as I get the results of this Presidential review, and the other Merc orders...should be interesting, if nothing else image

    Regards,

    Mike.
  • fcloudfcloud Posts: 12,133 ✭✭✭✭
    I still like coin number 1. In my opinion you kept the right coin. I feel you pain on the grading thing. You should see my last submission the coin I felt was an easy 67 came back 63. Another coin in the lot came back 66FB, and if that coin was 66FB, I know it was not my grading skills. I think they like to play games with the grades. I'm sure we all have coins that we could crack out, send in and get better grades the next time around--but we shouldn't have to pay multiple time to get the right grade.

    I'm glad my goals were (are) lower than many, or I'd be broke just on the fees alone.

    President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay

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