Wisconsin Quarters - Low and High

F117ASR

I was at a coin show conversing with a dealer and the topic of the Wisconsin quarters came up. I asked him if he had them and he showed me two of them. After he got over the dissapointment that I wasn't planning on buying it, we started to talk about the population of these coins. I asked him " Why don't you get it graded? It would be easier to sell". His response was that he didn't want to mess with the population of these. I thought that was a pretty fair assesment. He then went on to say that his buddy has an entire bag of them. I knew someone had to have them. I mean thousands are made from a die right? It just makes you wonder what other coins are sitting in hoards out there.

clackamas

It is a POP 12 in MS66 on the low leaf with 1 higher (at PCGS). That is a big dollar coin. He does not want to send it in becasue it is probably an MS63 and worth the same out of the holder.

pharmer

He doesn't want to mess with the population? Never heard that one before. How altruistic. And his buddy has a bag of them? Small bag, big bag, paper bag? Interesting sales technique sure to stimulate sales.

Weiss

I'd like to know at what point the nay-sayers will admit they were wrong about these, assuming of course that they are wrong? I mean, talk is cheap: everyone has an opinion. But what will it take for them admit that they were wrong?

Will it be...

When the pops stay low despite worldwide mainstream media attention?
When the numismatic trade media, periodicals, websites, and blogs devote pages to them?
When the dealers who "discovered" them sell out?
When the real 3rd party graders designate them?
When the Redbook includes them?
When the prices top $1,000 for a MS65 set?
When the next state quarter in the series is released?
When 3 months pass since release? 4 months? 5 months?

Because any one of those things might eventually happen. Then some people might have to admit they underestimated these things

F117ASR

<< <i> He doesn't want to mess with the population? Never heard that one before. How altruistic. And his buddy has a bag of them? Small bag, big bag, paper bag? Interesting sales technique sure to stimulate sales. >>



Well in all honesty he knew I wasn't going to buy anything so he went ahead and told me. As for the size of the bag, he gave me the impression that his buddy was stitting on at least 1000 of these pieces. He gave me this impression by making the bag size with his hand and saying thousands (of course I may have misunderstood).

Bochiman

It's likely that his buddy has a bag of the "D" mintage but probably not the high/low leaf varieties.
Could be other versions of die gouges, weak dies, etc.....I've seen that before from a seller on ebay.....where they had tons of "different" SHQs.

F117ASR

<< <i>
It's likely that his buddy has a bag of the "D" mintage but probably not the high/low leaf varieties. >>



Maybe. But we were specifically on the conversation of the population of high and low leaf varieties. Well either way I will wait to see what time says.

cladking

Coins are packaged by automated equipment from the output of numerous
dies. It's not possible to get rolls and bags that are entirely from a single or
pair of dies unless somebody separated them. While it's entirely possible
that there are lots more of these in the pipeline the probability drops every
day. It must be assumed that many of the coins in the pipeline must have at
least been spot checked and there are still only two reported release points.

Keep in mind though that jus because the probability of more of these appearing
has dropped it does not mean it won't happen and there is every chance large
quantities of these will yet show up. I doubt that these are an indication of that
it has already occurred.

Versailles

F117ASR,

Who was the dealer??

unspendable

I think with all the national attention, most of these have been found, I think it was intentional, the high leaf was unfinished for some reason, maybe someone came by while several people were working on this and then later that day they finished the low leaf.. to well placed for a die gouge. I would think some dealers got as many as they could at a low price.. just my opinion.

clackamas

<< <i>

<< <i> He doesn't want to mess with the population? Never heard that one before. How altruistic. And his buddy has a bag of them? Small bag, big bag, paper bag? Interesting sales technique sure to stimulate sales. >>



Well in all honesty he knew I wasn't going to buy anything so he went ahead and told me. As for the size of the bag, he gave me the impression that his buddy was stitting on at least 1000 of these pieces. He gave me this impression by making the bag size with his hand and saying thousands (of course I may have misunderstood). >>



How many did the guy have in his case and how much was he selling them for?

Versailles

I have seen this discussion before about the "mystery" dealer who knows "someone" with a bagful. This looks like someone's deliberate attempt to mislead collectors.

Any inquiries into this find have been met with disinformation. I have to assume this is deliberate lie unless proven otherwise.

Every time is view this error is becomes more amazing. I believe the "professionals" want to corner the market.

unspendable

"professionals want to corner the market" my thought also

AC7DX

Maybe I should get rid of the ones I found..... only 4 but maybe the only 4 found in Oregon...Not sure what to do.

Versailles

I'll buy them from you. How much?

cladking

<< <i>Maybe I should get rid of the ones I found..... only 4 but maybe the only 4 found in Oregon...Not sure what to do. >>



Can you supply any details about where, when, and how these were found? Even sketchy
details might be extremely helpful. It sounds like a third release point.

If there are four, there are probably far more.

pharmer

First time I've heard Oregon, that's big news.

AC7DX

posted info about 1 1/2 months ago here. 3 down leaf were found at BofA in Rosberg on my way back to Eugene. 1 up leaf was found in roll from Umpqua Bank in Sprinffield. Bought 15 rolls total and thats all I have been able to find. One down leaf went to PCGS and returned MS68 rest appear MS66? Will send them also maybe later.
Ron

Blade

Whoa! A PCGS MS68 from a circulated coin is an impressive feat. Nice job. That should be almost for sure a permanent pop top unless they show up in mint sets.

Weiss

Hey! How cool would that be? An extra leaf quarter in a mint set?

Coin Finder

Just checked the PCGS pop reports and there are no MS68,s at all on either variety.

Tbig

hiyosilver

Cool find! Anybody know if it`s the 1st report of added leaf out of other areas?

pharmer

Congrats on your pcgs ms68 low leaf If you're going to find the only ones outside of Arizona and Texas, might as well be good ones.









Edited to add:

AC7DX

I cant think, chew gum and type at the same time..my apoligy...sorry..MS64

Versailles

How much do you want for it?

AC7DX

not my best day...I tried to buy 10 60cent stamps for $1 at the PO this morning...should have stayed in bed

pharmer

What's the slab number, if you don't mind?

AC7DX

No...I dont mind. I dont blow smoke up anyones A##

/73182765...............

F117ASR

<< <i>Who was the dealer?? >>



I don't know who it was. Just a dealer. That's what he told me. If it was a lie then it was kind of pointless to me because I could care less about the quarter. I would like to find one but not buy one. He had a few in his case I think. Probably around 3 of each. Versailles, were you at the show?

EagleEye

I know it's April Fools, so I'll let the "my buddy has a bag of them" quote go...

However, Coin World reported a bag quantity in Ohio (of all places to find Denver coins) owned by a dealer who wanted to remain anonymous. It was reported by Tom at Central Wisconsin Coin. I've tried and tried to talk to him regarding the find and he's always too busy to talk to me. I think it was a hoax. Perhaps an off hand remark like the one related at the top of the thread that just got told too many times.

Here's what I put on my web site:


There was a report quoted in Coin World about an anonymous dealer in Ohio who got a bag of WI quarter varieties. This was reported by a respected Wisconsin dealer. The report seems to have some inconsistencies. The first being that there have yet been no report of a find of even a solid roll of WI Quarter varieties, let alone a full bag of 2000 coins. All full rolls offered have been assembled. If this is an assembled bag, then it would be quite a feat, but not impossible. I do find it odd that the report comes from Ohio. I think they get Philadelphia coins. I also find the anonymity and the second person report a bit unusual, especially for Coin World. They did not confirm the existence beyond the report from the Wisconsin dealer. After doing some checking, I feel certian that this story is a hoax. Perhaps a private white lie that got told too many times.

In a recent column, noted numismatist Q. David Bowers writes the following:

"I suppose the more people write or talk about the 2004-D Wisconsin Quarter dollars with Extra Leaf High and Extra Leaf Low, the more people will say, "I gotta have one!"
At the same time, as the price notches upward (as it seems to be doing), those who do not care for the variety will become more vocal - partly as a reason for not having to aquire one, part of aquisition psychology for a long time (check Aesop and his story about the dog and the grapes). Great Fun!"

I have to wholeheartedly agree with Dave. Beware of those warning about "Sour Grapes".

EagleEye

By the way, could someone post the current pops?

unspendable

I really don't think they showed up any place other than the south west unless a circulated one found its way somewhere, today is april 1..

joeyuk

High leaf pop.-482

low leaf pop.-802



edit to add
I'm a little dyslectic today.

F117ASR

Well EagleEye, that's some pretty decent reasoning. Perhaps it was just a rumour. I don't know
and frankly do not care. The guy was probably lying. But as someone said earlier, that is a horrible sales pitch (for the other people around). Just was a neat thought. The show wasn't today though. It was a week ago. So no april fools. Besides, what I really wanted to get to was the possiblity of older
coins that are deemed rare, in secret hoards.

Coin Finder

NGC High leaf
Total Graded 859

NGC Low
Total Graded 234

PCGS High Leaf
Total graded 482

PCGS Low
Total graded 802

I do not have ANACS NUMBERS

Tbig

hrlaser

<< <i>

Here's what I put on my web site:


There was a report quoted in Coin World about an anonymous dealer in Ohio who got a bag of WI quarter varieties. This was reported by a respected Wisconsin dealer. The report seems to have some inconsistencies. The first being that there have yet been no report of a find of even a solid roll of WI Quarter varieties, let alone a full bag of 2000 coins. All full rolls offered have been assembled. If this is an assembled bag, then it would be quite a feat, but not impossible. I do find it odd that the report comes from Ohio. I think they get Philadelphia coins. I also find the anonymity and the second person report a bit unusual, especially for Coin World. They did not confirm the existence beyond the report from the Wisconsin dealer. After doing some checking, I feel certian that this story is a hoax. Perhaps a private white lie that got told too many times.

>>



Hi, Rick.. where on your Web site is this??.. I'm looking at your page about the Wisconsin quarters and it's still dated 2/18/2005 and you talk about being out of town to go to the February Long Beach Show.. do you have another page about these or uhh..

Regards,

Harv

Coin Finder

HArv, try this site: www.indiancent.com then click on the Wisconsin quarter.

Is anyone here going to buy the Wisconsin D coin and die sets from the mint?

TBig

pharmer

Only if I can be assured of getting both die pairs of the extra leaf quarters. Just signed up for one of those "Make $100,000/year at home in your pajamas" deals, one of the options is the basement mint gambit.

koynekwest

Has anyone who owns one of these looked at the die state of the coin? Are they all EDS? Some MDS? Any LDS coins?

pharmer

I believe Rick Snow commented on the stages in one of, if not the, original threads on these. Can't remember what he concluded, though.

koynekwest

Die STATE-different from a die stage. An LDS would show "orange peel" surfaces or heavy flow lines, especially around the rim and indistinct or "mushy" lettering and devices.

pharmer

you said eds, mds, lds. Those are die stages

koynekwest

They are Die States. Die stages are Stage A; Stage B; Stage C etc. Die states are determined by the wear on the die; die stages are determined by a die marker not present on the previous die stage, such as a die crack or die clash

koynekwest

EDS=Early Die State MDS=Middle Die State LDS=Late Die state. There are further die states sometimes listed, such as VEDS=Very Early Die State or VLDS=Very Late Die State. These are particularly important on doubled die varieties.

hrlaser

<< <i>you said eds, mds, lds. Those are die stages >>



EDS is the Ross Perot die stage, LDS is the Mormon die stage.. MDS is.. uhh.. that charity Jerry Lewis raises money for every year or something..

{{For the humor-impaired --> KIDDING!!}}..


Harv

hrlaser

<< <i>HArv, try this site: www.indiancent.com then click on the Wisconsin quarter.

Is anyone here going to buy the Wisconsin D coin and die sets from the mint?

TBig >>



Ahha.. he has two pages.. I had the original one at http://www.indiancent.com/market/wiquarter.htm bookmarked and check it a couple times a week and it hasn't changed since 2/18/2005.. the one linked from his front page is http://www.indiancent.com/wiquarter.htm which was updated on 3/29/2005 and has the Ohio bag myth story..

I think I also read a short blurp in one of the last couple issues of CW that The Mint was going through the Wisconcheese coin and die sets to see if any of them had the extra leafy quarters in them, and if they did, they were going to remove them, or they checked them all and didn't find any or something like that.. it's possible one of these varieties could have been in one of the sets, but not the die that made it, since before they offer the dies for sale they grind off the entire design from it, so all you get is a tapered chunk of steel rod with a serial number on the side of it.. hmm.. come to think of it, the dies that made them COULD have been in one of those set, but since they grind off the whole coin design, no one would ever know which one it was, so it would't make any difference anyway..

Harv

(still doesn't believe for one nanowebber that these extra leaves were the result of a metal shaving from a die lathe flying off and impressing itself into the design.. in exactly the right place.. in the shape of a leaf.. under an ear of corn that has other leaves.. twice..) ..

pharmer

you're right, my mistake