1984 Fleer Update Clemens

lawnmowerman

What do you guys think of this card? Please be honest because I have an opportunity to get this card and I value everyones opinions. I know its a BGS but lets look at the card and not the company that graded it. Unless of course what you have to say is real funny

koby

The card looks great. My old SMR says PSA 10 is $950, so I imagine this card will cost much much more than that.

Onlypsahockey

Exceptional card. Would love to see it in a PSA slab.

Lawn, I think you could look long and hard and not find a better example. Clemens updates are non-existant here in Boston. I'm
not sure if it's a regional thing or nationwide.

Best of luck, Bob

goudeygold

I would leave it in the BGS 9.5. I think it is simply outstanding... is that bird crap on his left shoulder?

GG

pandrews

indeed.. i would be quite happy with it in the BGS holder..

boggs301012

Seems nice to me just like it was CUT yesterday!



James

ctsoxfan

Looks nice - about the only issue would be the centering on the reverse being off T/B. I wouldn't buy anything in a Beckett holder, though, and I would be worried about it crossing into a reputable holder (is it trimmed?) - especially at the price you will pay for it.

jrdolan

Now, now. Just because a grading service has acquired a certain reputation doesn't mean everything in their holders is trimmed. Or that this card is. I do think there is a lot of air above and below this Roger card, but maybe all BGS holders are that loose top to bottom? It seems to be pretty snug side to side.

Brian48

<< <i>all BGS holders are that loose top to bottom? >>



That's the mylar sleeve you're looking at, not the inside of the holder itself. The amount of play between top/bottom and left/right will vary with each holder as the person who does the slabbing may not always crimp the seal of the sleeve in the same place.

Anyway, that's a superb looking card. Much better looking than my GAI 9.5 which isn't as well centered. What's most impressive about this particular specimen is the back. The backs on the 84 Fleers are even harder to find centered than the fronts.

pandrews

i think its a great card..

CDsNuts

No flaking on any of the blue, that's the best one I've ever seen. Could be sheet cut, but I've never known of any uncut sheets of 84 Fleer update. It was such a limited product that I'd be surprised if there were many around in good enough shape to cut this one out.

Lee

sayheykid54

sayheykid54

Absolutely phenominal card. I would hate to think that it's trimmed. The centering and corners are just about as perfect as you could ever find.

Eddo33

This is my first post and had to buzz in since Clemens is who I collect. First off, I have seen 2 uncut sheets of 84 Fleer update. So this coming from a uncut sheet is not out of the possibility. That being said this is one the nicest Clemens I ever seen. I would not however remove it from ( and I can't believe I'm going to say this)the BGS holder. I just bought one raw and sent it in this past month during the special. It came back an 8. I do have a PSA 9 and that BGS 9.5 blows it away.

here is my submission# if you want to check out the rest of my order. (I must of had a brain fart when I looked at the Bonds card.)

4264134 Zip 15227

Brian48

Well, it certainly blows away my GAI 9.5.

CDsNuts

If I were going to sell it, I'd cross it over to PSA- it should get a 10. The reason I'd do this is I feel there's a lot of people that search for "PSA 10" on ebay and you'd get a lot more exposure that way. If you're going to keep it, the less you handle it the better.

Lee

Brian48

Yeah, but if you do the research, you'll find that regardless of the amount of exposure, BGS 9.5's still command a bigger premium over PSA 10's of the same card. You can argue 'til you're blue in the face in regards to the validity of whether or not BGS 9.5's are actually better then PSA 10's, but that's irrelevant. Bottomline, the BGS 9.5 WILL sell for more. For that reason, biases aside, I'd keep it in the BGS holder. The same goes for GAI vs PSA. The only reason why I haven't crossed my Clemens over to PSA or BGS is because I have no intentions of selling it at this point. If I were to sell it, I would not make as much with this card in the GAI holder.

gradeddream

Aot people make me laugh on this board. I understand if use or buy Psa but any person with a half a brain knows that all modern cards sell much higher in a Bgs holder. ITS JUST A FACT!

I use Bgs & i'm happy with the $$ i get for my cards. I do buy Psa cards off ebay & send them to bgs to get crossed over. usually they cross over about 40% of them. Alot of them get edge damaged because of the Psa holder so they dont cross.

I think that Clemens is beautiful & i would never take out of the Bgs holder unless you wanted to lower the value of it dramatically.

CDsNuts

I'm not biased one way or the other because I never grade the cards I plan on keeping, and I actually bust the ones I buy out of their cases so I can put them in a nice thick screwdown. However, Beckett's reputation for grading trimmed and sheet cut cards are starting to make BGS/BVG cards drop. For example, the card in question right now:

BGS 9.5 clemens

PSA 10 clemens


I'm sure you could show dozens of recent auctions where Beckett cards go higher, and I could do the same. But the older you go, the more the prices start to favor PSA graded cards. Personally, I could care less- I'd buy a CSA 8 over a PSA 8 at the same price if it looks better (and authentic/untrimmed). However, I'm rethinking my position on crossing over this card because of the potential for any kind of damage, and the fact that it probably wouldn't bring much more, if any as a PSA 10. I guess I was thinking of this card as vintage (which are usually the only cards I buy graded), when it clearly is not.

Lee

mudflap02

Note the 9 surface subgrade oin the BGS. That's the kiss of death for me and a lot of others for a BGS 9.5 card.

jas0526

Well, did you decide to get it? That is one beautiful card -

CDsNuts

mud,
I've never really paid attention to the subgrades, as I usually only buy cards from ebay that I can see all that stuff on the scan. Why would a 9 for the surface be any more crucial than a 9 on corners, edges, or centering in your eyes? Not knocking you, it's just that this thread got me thinking I may want to send some cards into Beckett and see what happens, but first I'd like to know what influences the buyers of BGS cards.

Lee

pandrews

the crappy scan of the BGS card probably didnt help the final price..

mudflap02

Sheet cut cards usually grade out at 9.5, 9.5, 9.5, and 9 for surface. Surface is the only element you can't control when cutting from a sheet (corners, edges, and centering all depend on the quality of the cut).

DaBigHurt

BGS=TRIMMED. Stick with the best, PSA!

Nuff said!

gradeddream

<< <i>BGS=TRIMMED. Stick with the best, PSA!

Nuff said! >>



i can name hand fulls of cards that are counterfit that psa grades!

magellan

<< <i>Note the 9 surface subgrade oin the BGS >>



Actually if you look again at the subgrades , they're all 9.5.

CDsNuts

OK, that makes sense. You know you have to re-evaluate your position when dabighurt is taking your side. Maybe I'll send my next batch of modern to BGS and see what happens.

Lee

envoy98

Subgrades are 9.5 for all but Surface.

Link

Mudflap is right.. a 9 surface grade with 9.5 or 10 subgrades on everything else, is usually the kiss of death. Some people don't seem to mind, and certainly not every card that has this characteristic is trimmed or sheet cut but it certainly is an interesting aspect to pay attention too. If you look at the runs of cards from known trimmers on ebay you'll see this pattern emerge a lot!

Interestingly enough, that seller probably is the proud owner of this one as well, with all 9.5 subgrades.
Link

His 89 UD Griffey was a 9.5, 0003709496

Here is the 2nd of 2 bgs 10's in that same submission...
Link

Either this seller has a great eye, or he's crafty.

Take it for what it's worth.

-Josh



Edited to fix link.


By the way bighurt, do you go through a lot of chap stick? Your lips must really get sore with as much PSA A$$ as you pucker up for.

Brian48

[quote]By the way bighurt, do you go through a lot of chap stick? Your lips must really get sore with as much PSA A$$ as you pucker up for. [/quote]

LOL!

lawnmowerman

Hey guys. Sorry for not getting back to the thread sooner but I have been sick and out of it for the past three or so days. I really appreciate everyone's feedback regarding this card. Yes, I did buy the card and It looks great in person as well. I have many BGS cards and want to respond to the topic about subgrades. Personally I will only buy a BGS card if it has all 9.5 subs or 9.5's and a 10. I never buy a BGS card if it has three 9.5's and a 9 unless its a card that is hard to come by in gem mint form. I am sure its just me being anal but I just like the way all gem subgrades look on the slab.

Matt