fraud/countefiet website?

loki23 · March 25, 2005 3:29AM

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know of a seller fraud/counterfiet card archive website? and if not, does anyone see any possible good of a website like this? A site that would document and archive people's experience with auction fraud and and provide an archive of counterfiet cards and how to spot them?

DS1991Topps · March 25, 2005 4:35AM

Excellent Question... I think it would be great to have a place we could go to. Counterfeit cards are big when dealing with the 1991 TOPPS Desert Shield Baseball Cards. I have come across a lot in the past 15 years of collecting them.

I just build a web site for the collectors of 1991 TOPPS Desert Shield Baseball Cards. This way they can go to my site and see what a counterfeit card looks like and read articles that Beckett and SMR wrote about them.

Check Out My New 1991 TOPPS Desert Shield Baseball Web Site...Shows Counterfeit Cards....

loki23 · March 25, 2005 4:59AM

The reason I ask is because I am a web developer, and I was thinking for sometime of putting up a website devoted to exposing these problems. I really don't mean for this to seem like spam in any way, shape, or form as the site doesn't exist yet (mine anyway). I was just looking to get feedback from people as to the usefulness of a project before actually putting effort into the development process. I would also like to know if anyone would actually contribute experiences/knowledge to it.

edited for spelling correction (I'm picky)

DS1991Topps · March 25, 2005 8:39AM

As I stated before... I think it would be great! I know a lot of DS collectors that would support you.

Coolidge · March 25, 2005 9:03AM

<< The reason I ask is because I am a web developer, and I was thinking for sometime of putting up a website devoted to exposing these problems. I really don't mean for this to seem like spam in any way, shape, or form as the site doesn't exist yet (mine anyway). I was just looking to get feedback from people as to the usefulness of a project before actually putting effort into the development process. I would also like to know if anyone would actually contribute experiences/knowledge to it. >>

I would suggest hiring a good lawyer because you will need one (that's if you can even find hosting for a site like that).

RangerRob · March 25, 2005 9:33AM

Coolidge,

Why would you say that????

RangerRob · March 25, 2005 9:35AM

How would his site be different from the one below...

From Beckett's Forum...

This message board is devoted to informing other users about the luck / misfortune they've had with other online traders.

Beckett's Board

Coolidge · March 25, 2005 9:43AM

Ranger,

A website that describes how to identify counterfeit cards, along with examples, is fine. However, a website that lists names of people and describes them as crooks is a different story. Even if they are crooks, he will end up with major legal problems. That's why you don't see websites like that.

loki23 · March 25, 2005 9:45AM

<< However, a website that lists names of people and describes them as crooks is a different story. Even if they are crooks, he will end up with major legal problems. >>

I wonder if adding the stipulation that the comments stated on the site are soley those of the poster and may not necessarily be shared with the site administrator comment would do something to remedy that

loki23 · March 25, 2005 9:48AM

Thank you to everyone who is providing feedback, It's very helpful, I very much welcome more.

I just noticed that I spelled "counterfeit" wrong in the thread title...damn, that's going to bug me.

DS1991Topps · March 25, 2005 10:24AM

A website that describes how to identify counterfeit cards, along with examples, is fine. However, a website that lists names of people and describes them as crooks is a different story. Even if they are crooks, he will end up with major legal problems. That's why you don't see websites like that.

It seems beckett has been doing pretty good with thier board. Why don't they have something here like Beckett's board... Give KUDOS to whom should get them and list bad experience with sellers... I don't see anything wrong with it! What is the difference from people stating that they had problems with sellers and listing their name on this board. There are sites like that everywhere... People post information about crooks all over the net... Just take a look at ebay...

bowdowntome · March 25, 2005 11:37AM

I think a website for information only, would be fantastic. No names of any "criminals" would have to be mentioned. If a known fake card is being sold somewhere, and proof can be shown that it is a fake, then the possible victim (buyer) can be directed to the site to see exactly what is the problem with what he is about to pay dearly for.

One thing that is necessary for such a site though, is the aquisition of examples of known fakes, and counterfeits, in order to show, in detail, closeup comparisons for people to see.

The name of the game is education, not accusation.

RangerRob · March 25, 2005 11:47AM

loki23,

I am guessing you have posted this same question on other boards... ie. Beckett, maybe other grading card boards, etc... I would love to see what others have to say about this one. Try posting to Beckett since they have something like what you are talking about, maybe emailing them to see if they have had issues with their site. I know I would want to know if a seller has sold a counterfeit card, but then again, who is to say that seller knew it was counterfeit. It can go both ways... I still would love to see a site like what you are talking about. I would post it on our website.

loki23 · March 25, 2005 3:12PM

<< I am guessing you have posted this same question on other boards... ie. Beckett, maybe other grading card boards, etc... >>

Actually, this is the first time I have ever brought the idea up to anyone. I just keep reading stories of people getting taken by these counterfeits, and I would like to do my part to either lessen these occurances or at the very least make it harder on the counterfeiters. Maybe even learn a thing or two for myself in the process.

<< I would post it on our website >>

Exactly which site is that?

--KG

chicago111 · March 25, 2005 11:09PM

RE: the Desert Seild web site

Man you really need to fix the pictures on that site if your serious about listing fake cards. There very poor quality. Also some of the lightting on the cards is very poor.

JMO

DS1991Topps · March 26, 2005 12:40AM

chicago111,

The pictures are how the other sellers were listing them... They did it on purpose to try and hide the counterfeit seals... These photo were emailed to us by other buyers who were taken in by counterfeit sellers. They are not messed up by me. When seller try and sell 1991 TOPPS Desert Shield Baseball cards they always tried to make the photos dark and blame it on their cameras. They know if they take good photos the bright gold counterfeit seal will show up.

But thanks for stating that... I will add some words to let people know that is how the counterfeit sellers listed the cards..

bowdowntome · March 26, 2005 1:18AM

DS1991 - Have you bought any of the fake DS cards yourself? If not, maybe you could try to get one as an example, that way you could make very high res. and detailed comparison scans, to show differences.

chicago111 · March 26, 2005 1:21AM

DS1991Topps
That makes more sense now. TY

denwd1 · March 26, 2005 11:08PM

auction warnings

RangerRob · March 26, 2005 11:49PM

denwd1,

Thank you for the link.

loki23,

I think you brought this up earlier... I would say go for it.

Welcome to SMACK an Auction Watch Page. This page is meant to educate and warn buyers of possibly fraudelent memorabilia auctions listed on the internet everyday. You are welcome to have us review and post auctions so that others maybe warned. If you as a seller have been mentioned please feel free to defend yourself. Disclaimer: Anything posted here is an opinion and in no way represents that what is being offered for sale is fake, just questionable. Before You Bid Arm Yourself With Knowledge !

loki23 · March 27, 2005 2:22AM

I'll definently put it on my list to do then, thank you everyone. But keep in mind, more feedback is very welcome, I would like to have everyone's input on whether it should be made... how to go about it, and also what features to include. Every bit of feedback is valued, con just as much as pro.

Thanks again,

--KG

krunchtyme · March 27, 2005 10:13AM

Loki, if you make a site like this, you should also tell people where to report fraudulent activity. It's up to them if they make a report or not, but at least point them in the right direction.

Krunchtyme

loki23 · March 27, 2005 12:24PM

<< you should also tell people where to report fraudulent activity. >>

You mean where to report in person? or on the site?

I'm assuming you mean where to report in person

RangerRob · March 27, 2005 12:31PM

krunchtyme,

Excellent point....

Where To Report Auction Fraud

alinchitown · March 28, 2005 7:27AM

Hi Loki

I am the founder of SMACK which was mentioned earlier in your thread. One of the things you need to have in order to be able to report on a consistant basis is a good team of people who are on the lookout for bad sellers. Also try to specialize in an area which you have some expertise in. Trying to catch all the scammers is next to impossible. I try to focus on 50's - 60's cards which is what I collect so I know them pretty well. This of course puts me on the track of other bad merchandise like T206's and Goudey's.

Of the 16 bad sellers our blog has reported on 13 have been removed by eBay. The reason for this is our team not only writes about these people but we pursue filing complaints with eBay. Enough compliants and they will listen and act. We also actively try to get in front of the powers to be at eBay a good example of this is here:

Dear David Steer

Mr. Steer is the head of eBay security and he actually responded to the post. Anyway you have a good idea the more people reporting on bogus sellers the better any help I can offer feel free to contact me. Thru the blog or here TheSmackZone

loki23 · March 28, 2005 3:02PM

alinchitown,

I appreciate you taking the time to contact me, I would really love to build this website, but of course I'm not going to jump right into it. So what I think may do is get more involved with your site, check it out, maybe contribute some and just generally get a feel for it, and see where it goes, how's that sound to you?

--KG

alinchitown · March 30, 2005 1:31AM

Loki
That sounds like a great idea. Like I said the more people who are watching for bogus items from one reporting source the more consistant a report is going to be. If you'd like to contribute articles I can send you a sign up for the blog as a contributer. All you need do is write the article that you want to post leave it as a draft and let me know so that I can edit it.

loki23 · March 30, 2005 4:14AM

<< If you'd like to contribute articles I can send you a sign up for the blog as a contributer. >>

That would be great, let me know what you need

BTW, I made a post to your guestbook yesterday, don't know if you saw it

--KG

DS1991Topps · March 30, 2005 4:31AM

loki23,

Don't know if these will help you... Too Many links to list but you can cut and paste.

"FRAUD"
Are you a victim of Fraud?
"Check out these Fraud Links!"

If you paid via Paypal, File a Buyer Complaint and Request a chargeback within 30 days of Payment.

http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/buyer-complaint-outside

File the Online Fraud Report/Claim/Complaint w/ eBay's SafeHarbor from 30-60 days of End of Auction (EOA).

http://crs.ebay.com/aw-cgi/ebayisapi.dll?crsstartpage

File Mail Fraud Complaint w/ US Postal Service (USPS) after 30 days and up to apx 1 year.

http://www.framed.usps.com/postalinspectors/fraud/MailFraudComplaint.htm

If your buyer sends you a check that bounces...

http://www.mindspring.com/~bookdealers/nopay.html#NSF

Also file the Complaints with the following resources.

National Fraud Information Center (NFIC)

http://63.222.159.194/repoform.htm

FBI's Internet Fraud Complaint Center (IFCC)

http://www.ifccfbi.gov/

Federal Trade Commission (FTC) FTC Consumer Complaint Form

https://rn.ftc.gov/pls/dod/wsolcq$.startup?Z_ORG_CODE=PU01

Better Business Bureau (BBB)

http://www.bbb.org/bbbcomplaints/Welcome.asp

The National Consumer Complaint Center for Internet Fraud, False Advertising and Breached Warranties(NCCC)

http://www.alexanderlaw.com/nccc/cb-ftc.html

CCIPS, Reporting Internet Crime

http://www.cybercrime.gov/reporting.htm

Master List Of Attorneys General

http://www.naag.org/ag/full_ag_table.cfm

Fraud Bureau.com

http://www.fraudbureau.com/database/file5.html

International Fraud Resources

International Web Police (IWP)

http://www.InterGOV.org/forms/wp_crimereport.html

International Web Police

http://www.web-police.org/

Interpol

http://www.interpol.com/

Canada Fraud Resources

Canada Information Centre Enquiry/Complaint Form

http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/SSG/ct01260e.html

Canadian Consumer Information Gateway

http://consumerinformation.ca/cgi-bin/main.cgi?Language=E

Royal Canadian Mounted Police

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/

loki23 · March 30, 2005 5:03AM

DS1991Topps,

Awesome, thanks!

alinchitown · March 30, 2005 9:30AM

loki
If you want write for the blog I need your e mail address so I can send you the sign up. I don't know what you collect but we sure could someone who knows pre war cards. I did see your post in the guest book, I haven't included that seller becuase I have no evidence as to where the cards are from or no clue as to why we can claim them to be questionable. If you have good reasons for this I will be glad to mention him in the Update. You can email me thru the eBay contact members feature for now. (don't want to post my e mail address lol)

e mail

loki23 · March 30, 2005 11:03AM

<< I have no evidence as to where the cards are from or no clue as to why we can claim them to be questionable. >>

The font on the card being auctioned is IMO visibly wrong, and on the original version the "D" in "Detroit" is slightly larger than the rest of the letter in the word.

Sorry for the large scans, but given the photo quality (it came from a book) it's needed to see the font properly

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fraud/countefiet website?

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