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update on ebay seller numiscent
cdan12
Posts: 364
The 4 coins that I bought from numiscent were all bodybagged by PCGS,for artificial color and or cleaning, I paid with paypal so I will get my money back,but he has 24 or so other auctions running,the coins in these all look like same,is there a way to report this to ebay? I have tried to report through there fraud complaint process but was told if I had filed a complaiht with paypal they would work together to get it resolved,(a 20 or 30 day process) at any rate it cured me,no more raw coins and now I don't think I would even buy one in person.
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They all look cleaned and re-toned to me. I'd avoid any seller who has so many coins that look just alike.
I suspect everything he has would be body bagged.
Look at the boilerplate he has at the bottom of his auction. I'd say you are stuck with 4 near worthless coins. Sorry.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
I think I'm with cdan12...no more raw coins for me.
Any input on what I should do is appriciated.
<< <i>coins were paid for on 2/19/05 and reported today. >>
You have to notify PayPal within 30 days to open any dispute.
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since 8/1/6
That's my lesson learned for the day. Something I never thought of looking at before. Good advice!
Best of luck to those who purchased coins from this seemingly crooked seller. Hope you get refunded.
collections: Maryland related coins & exonumia, 7070 Type set, and Video Arcade Tokens.
The Low Budget Y2K Registry Set
<< <i>I'm just sick to have read this thread, not only for cdan12, but also for me as I just won two coins from him today. What should I do? Should I not send in the payment? Contact the the seller and let him know that I have a problem with possible misrepresentation?
I think I'm with cdan12...no more raw coins for me.
Any input on what I should do is appriciated. >>
Whatever you do, don't send any money. See if the seller will let you out of it. He probably will, to avoid additional negative feedback.
Yes, I work for one of them but am also a very active collector. I have long since learned that these "bargains" end up being much more costly than if one had just paid up for a properly graded coin in the first place. So quit shopping by price and shop for quality instead. Your wallet and your collection will thank believe it or not.
Best of luck resolving your issues, I hope it all works out. We now end this rant and return to our regular scheduled program: "How I Got Ripped Off On eBay".
<< <i>It's interesting how people flock to guys like that even though there are reputable, established dealers and specialists who even go so far as to guarantee the grades of their coins. It's quite a concept. Oh I forgot, they charge full retail and we can't have that now can we?
Yes, I work for one of them but am also a very active collector. I have long since learned that these "bargains" end up being much more costly than if one had just paid up for a properly graded coin in the first place. So quit shopping by price and shop for quality instead. Your wallet will actually thank believe it or not.
Best of luck resolving your issues, I hope it all works out. >>
Yeah, watch out for RCNH (tonelover). I heard stories of his raw AU-58 coins grading PCGS MS-62!!
Yeah, we really do have to learn how to grade more like these ebay dealers. It sucks when our RETAIL clients get what they pay for and sometimes even more.
The seller boldly states in his selling conditions that he is not guaranteeing third party grading and the buyer releases him from any fault there. Having seen this I would have not bid on any of his auctions. I am so sorry you were taken by this guy but I don't think you have any recourse whatsoever except to leave negative feedback, and I certainly would leave the negatives.
snapmohr,
You do what you want with your two purchases from this loser seller. What I would do is contact him about cdan12 situation and ask him to release you from your purchase agreement without prejudice. If the seller refuses I would not pay him and take my chances on a negative feedback.
I really feel badly for both you guys. This is exactly why I simply do not buy raw coins---ever.
<< <i>This is exactly why I simply do not buy raw coins---ever. >>
That's a good way to miss out on nice coins.
Russ, NCNE
I don't think the OP has a valid complaint, and I don't think he should get his money back. Besides, the 30 days has already passed.
I suppose he'll be writing some nasty diatribe on paypalsucks.com now, when PayPal has done nothing wrong.
Ebay buyers need to work within return privilege time offered by seller. Get outside the return privilege window and you have no recourse other than to leave a negative (not recommended for a buyer who has "broken the rules," so to speak). That's the way it is. The seller doesn't offer approval service, right?
A buyer who hasn't developed sufficient expertise to quickly identify an obviously impaired (AT, cleaned, etc.) raw coin purchased on ebay should buy only TPG service slabbed coins on that venue or have local access to someone who does have the expertise to make a timely identification of impairment, obvious and maybe even not-so-obvious, on an ebay purchased raw coin.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Wow- if your skin is that thin, you may be hanging out in the wrong forum- and if you can't identify AT and cleaning, you probably don't want to start talking junk in a coin forum!
<< <i>after turning several screws it seems numiscent now wants to return all my money+ postage+pcgs grading fees. I accused him of doctoring the coins and he never admitted he had,but he never said he didn't,Thanks to all for your support,I never meant for this to be a ebay or paypal flame,but a warning to other would be buyers,as to tonelover,clackamus and flamino edited to add myggy"KISS MY A$$) >>
LOL I was just saying you can buy raw but you have to know what you are looking for. Use this to learn. I have purchased from this seller and had some obvious doctored, cleaned, recolored coins, I returned them with no problem, but I also have had some steals from him. I got 2 09-VDB's from the guy for $25 each and both graded MS66RD. Those are close to $200 coins. I also got a MS64RD 1916 from him (PCGS graded) for $35.
<< <i>after turning several screws it seems numiscent now wants to return all my money+ postage+pcgs grading fees. I accused him of doctoring the coins and he never admitted he had,but he never said he didn't,Thanks to all for your support,I never meant for this to be a ebay or paypal flame,but a warning to other would be buyers,as to tonelover,clackamus and flamino edited to add myggy"KISS MY A$$) >>
CDan12, I am glad your were made whole here -- most who are victims of these types of sellers are not so fortunate.
However, my sympathy for you went down a few notches after you trash 4 respected forum members. Your skin is indeed too thin if you cannot take constructive criticism.
Take a look at the feedback left by "apache0911" on six coins he bought from "numiscent": Link
On each, apache0911 left positive feedback saying "nice coin will let you know how it grades"
Later, he left follow-up feedback saying that PCGS bagged them for artificial color ON ALL SIX COINS!!!!
So, for two buyers and 10 coins, PCGS bagged 10 out of 10 for artificial color. Yet, if you look at the rest of "Numiscent's" feedback, his customers are all happy as a clam getting screwed out of hundreds of dollars on artificially colored Lincoln cents.
Yet Ebay, the ANA, or anyone else is powerless to put an end to this theivery.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Fly-In Club
My PCGS Registry Sets
WS
<< <i>e-bay is an auction, all auctions, on line or in person are final at the time of closing,, >>
I do not know what relevance this statement has here, but it certainly does not excuse the fraud being conducted by ebay seller "Numiscent"!!
What the heck does this have to do with PayPal?
Dave
If you agree that grading is subjective, you cannot complain that you did not get the grade that was advertised by the seller. It bites that cdan12 got hit with four bodybags, but I fail to see how that's the seller's fault or PayPal's.
Of course, if, like me, you believe that grading should be treated objectively, then this was a real screw job and the seller, imho, should be compelled, at a minimum, to repay all of the buyer's costs, including grading fees and all postage; all the usual breach of warranty remedies should be available.
-csw
Tiger trout, Deerfield River, c. 2001.
Dave
<< <i>If you agree that grading is subjective, you cannot complain that you did not get the grade that was advertised by the seller. It bites that cdan12 got hit with four bodybags, but I fail to see how that's the seller's fault or PayPal's.-csw >>
Combined with 6 bodybags from "apache0911" that makes 10. The seller is intentionally whizzing and coloring cleaned Lincoln cents to simulate original luster. It is entirely the seller's fault these coins get bagged, and he is screwing numerous buyers on purpose. Stating that "grading is subjective", or "caveat empetor" does not excuse this fraud.
I would agree with you if the seller represented in his auction "I did not whiz these coins" or "I did not color cleaned Lincoln cents to simulate original luster" or words to that effect. All he said (as far as I know) is "These coins are MS 65." If grading is subjective, that statement is in essence meaningless (because, by definition, grading standards are subjective and vary from one outfit to another) and therefore is not and should not be actionable. Without a deliberate misstatement of an objective fact, it certainly is not fraud.
Tiger trout, Deerfield River, c. 2001.
<< <i>I would agree with you if the seller represented in his auction "I did not whiz these coins" or "I did not color cleaned Lincoln cents to simulate original luster" or words to that effect. All he said (as far as I know) is "These coins are MS 65." If grading is subjective, that statement is in essence meaningless (because, by definition, grading standards are subjective and vary from one outfit to another) and therefore is not and should not be actionable. Without a deliberate misstatement of an objective fact, it certainly is not fraud. >>
You gotta be kidding.
The seller describes most of those coins as "Blazing Red MS-65". Color and surface preservation are key components of grading, and when both have been altered on a coin to represent something they are not, you have fraud. Thus, when a coin is graded "Red MS-65" and it has been re-colored and whizzed, that is fraud, not "subjective grading".
Those same coins that were bodybagged at PCGS may well have been slabbed at another, shall we say, lesser TPG. Then the buyer would have gotten his MS65 designation and could have no complaints.
In short, if grading is subjective, then any opinion as to a grade's coin is virtually unassailable.
Tiger trout, Deerfield River, c. 2001.
<< <i>Do I look like I'm kidding?
Those same coins that were bodybagged at PCGS may well have been slabbed at another, shall we say, lesser TPG. Then the buyer would have gotten his MS65 designation and could have no complaints.
In short, if grading is subjective, then any opinion as to a grade's coin is virtually unassailable. >>
OK, then I guess you think New England Rare Coin Galleries got a raw deal when the FTC shut them down in 1987. After all, in their "subjective opinion" those AU Walkers were MS-65!!
That they were shut down, however, is strong evidence that grading is and/or should be considered objective, which is a distinctly disfavored view I have voiced on this forum many times.
Tiger trout, Deerfield River, c. 2001.
Has anyone here ever had trouble receiving a refund from this guy?
It does seem interesting now that you still have not received the refund he claimed he sent.
I think much more info on the deal may need to be posted, and this could be a perfect friday night thread.
<< <i>Hey cdan12, you're an idiot. >>
I know I am, but what are you?
I have been called a idiot, a 3rd grade student and lately a freaking Genius.. So my question is if I am a idiot what does this make everyone else.
Oops.. Wrong person, thought you were talking about wha..... Sorry Tom B..
P.S... Still don't understand the problem here.. You bought some coins, didn't know what you bought and now want a refund? Easy file a complaint with your local BBB, your local Coin Union and then Paypal and everything should work out..
<< <i>
P.S... Still don't understand the problem here.. .. >>
A big part of the problem is it was from 2005.
<< <i>
<< <i>
P.S... Still don't understand the problem here.. .. >>
A big part of the problem is it was from 2005. >>
Another SNL teachable moment!
Quote: Rosanna Rosannadanna - "Nevermind!"
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BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
He has now said that he had stopped payment on the "mystery: check that was sent (2) weeks ago and that his bank had sent me a check this past Monday.....
Today when I sad to him, and I admit, not in a nice way that I have not received anything .....his response was that I am disrespectful and that during the "few" hours that I had the coin that I had removed it from the holder and sent it to PCGS for grading..........
he must be very desperate to pull this kind of crap....and BTW I paid him with USPS Money Order.
Eric Beers contacted me with an offer for a 1912 Matte Proof on my website which I state that the color seems off. (Here is a link to the item: LINK)
I accepted the offer. He sent payment in the mail by MO. He received the coin and told me he's like to return it because it had a "messed with" look. Yep, I agree. He sends it back. I receive the coin on Friday, August 28, and send out his refund check on Monday, August 31. On Friday, September 4, he emails me and says politely that the check had not arrived yet. I reply the same day and say that if it still hasn't come by Monday that I will stop payment on the check and issue a new one. Then out of nowhere I get this from him.
Tom,
After checking you out when I did not recieve my refund in a timely manor I now realize that I should have checked you out further (Google, the CU forum)etc. before sending my hard earned money to you, this is bulls**t "I dont know what happened blah, blah blah, and I'll stop payment if you do not recieve it by Monday..(Holiday...Daaa!) more bulls**t!
You and I both know that there will be no check because you never sent one.
Now, that is out of the way, lets talk about what YOU WILL DO, which is:
You will on Tuesday Morning go to the PO and get my refund in US Postal MO's and overnite them to me...
Should you decide not to do this I will get a plane ticket and come to your house and collect it personally!
Do yourself a favor "TOM"...do not screw with me.......
So this Tuesday, September 8, I called my bank and had them issue a bank check to Eric, since I was down the shore on vacation and did not have my checkbook. I also stopped payment on the check, a $38 fee that was well worth it, because it's hard to trust someone who writes you a crazy email like this.
Wednesday evening, 9/9, I followed up with an update explaining to look for the check to come addressed from my bank, since this could be confused with junk mail.
What did I possibly do wrong here?
http://numiscent.com
email me
What did I possibly do wrong here?
You have not refunded my 1750.00.........is that clear enough!
IF you sent him that very threatening email about collecting your money in person, I'd like to see him file a threatening complaint with the local PD. Others here have offered very good advice, study the coins, learn from it etc but you just want to try and run roughshod over the seller and anyone who disagrees with you.
the USPS does a decent job but you need to give them a few days
What I expect is an honest transaction....say what you are gonna do...then do what you say.....period.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"