I'm confused on this Mantle auction, looking for opinions
A761506
Posts: 1,309 ✭✭✭
Very seldom am I ever not certain when it comes to the 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle auctions, but there is one running now that people have been asking me questions about left and right.
Link to auction
The card that is pictured in the auction is 100% authentic, the print patterns & color are correct. The seller even produced a high resolution picture of the card taken in front of the Cleveland newspaper from the other day.
Now, the confusion...
The seller has limited feedback, but enough to draw some conclusions...
1) The seller has sold a ton of Roberto Clemente autographs, and these things just do not grow on trees. Many of the items have COA's from Christopher Morales, who is/was Donald Frangipani's partner. We all know that story with Don and how anything he COA'd is banned from eBay. I do believe there was a huge problem with a ton of fake Clemente autographs surfacing and being authenticated by these guys. I also wonder why he sold the same Nolan Ryan auto'd ball with same COA twice and got feedback from both sales.
2) The seller recently spent nearly $2K on a Pete Maravich rookie card in a PSA 9 holder, so clearly, the guy understands the value of PSA grading. In the auction, he mentions he expects it to be graded between 4 and 6, which leaves a tremendous price range. I seriously question why the card is not graded, and why he would risk selling a card with that much potential for considerably under market value and/or with no reserve.
I have been advising my guide buyers who are hell-bent on buying a raw '52 Mantle, as opposed to just buying a graded one, to only conduct the transaction using escrow.com and contingent upon the card being graded by PSA. None of them have responded as to whether the seller was willing to do this.
I think this is a major scam by someone who has dabbled in shady deals before, but I don't know for certain. I want more opinions from you guys. I think the seller is going to send a completely different card, or someone has developed a new fake that looks prestine.
Link to auction
The card that is pictured in the auction is 100% authentic, the print patterns & color are correct. The seller even produced a high resolution picture of the card taken in front of the Cleveland newspaper from the other day.
Now, the confusion...
The seller has limited feedback, but enough to draw some conclusions...
1) The seller has sold a ton of Roberto Clemente autographs, and these things just do not grow on trees. Many of the items have COA's from Christopher Morales, who is/was Donald Frangipani's partner. We all know that story with Don and how anything he COA'd is banned from eBay. I do believe there was a huge problem with a ton of fake Clemente autographs surfacing and being authenticated by these guys. I also wonder why he sold the same Nolan Ryan auto'd ball with same COA twice and got feedback from both sales.
2) The seller recently spent nearly $2K on a Pete Maravich rookie card in a PSA 9 holder, so clearly, the guy understands the value of PSA grading. In the auction, he mentions he expects it to be graded between 4 and 6, which leaves a tremendous price range. I seriously question why the card is not graded, and why he would risk selling a card with that much potential for considerably under market value and/or with no reserve.
I have been advising my guide buyers who are hell-bent on buying a raw '52 Mantle, as opposed to just buying a graded one, to only conduct the transaction using escrow.com and contingent upon the card being graded by PSA. None of them have responded as to whether the seller was willing to do this.
I think this is a major scam by someone who has dabbled in shady deals before, but I don't know for certain. I want more opinions from you guys. I think the seller is going to send a completely different card, or someone has developed a new fake that looks prestine.
0
Comments
Need 1973 Baseball PSA 9's
Like you said, they obiously know the difference in value, why not get it graded?
1. Having the card graded
2. Consigning the card to a respectable EBAY seller (who would probably tell him to get the card graded).
The man may actually have the card in his possession, but it may not be the card that the buyer is actually going to get.
1955 Bowman Raw complete with 90% Ex-NR or better
Now seeking 1949 Eureka Sportstamps...NM condition
Working on '78 Autographed set now 99.9% complete -
Working on '89 Topps autoed set now complete
<< <i>Heck $40,000+ in 3 Ebay auctions!! Email the seller of the psa/dna bat and see if he paid.. If so I may bid on this one.. completed >>
He did not actually win any of those auctions as the reserve price in each case was not met. The most expensive item he actually won was the Roberto Clemente autograph ball and the Roger maris autograph.
1955 Bowman Raw complete with 90% Ex-NR or better
Now seeking 1949 Eureka Sportstamps...NM condition
Working on '78 Autographed set now 99.9% complete -
Working on '89 Topps autoed set now complete
<< <i>Heck $40,000+ in 3 Ebay auctions!! Email the seller of the psa/dna bat and see if he paid.. If so I may bid on this one.. completed >>
He did not drop the 40k. There was a reserve on the bat and it was not met.
You all have very valid points Thanks Dang no Icon for a bubble bursting
Need 1973 Baseball PSA 9's
Stone
Bottom line: This card is trimmed but will come back authentic.
Bid accordingly.
He isn't guarantee any grade only authenticity.
Man the Christmas colored large text is enough to give a guy a seizure.
Many red flags, but I only need two: 1) Poor feedback and 2) he knows all about PSA but chooses to flush thousands of dollars down the toilet by not getting it graded. Could be PSA 6? I guess $11,000 or more is not worth the time to find out. I agree with those who say that if it IS real, it must be trimmed or otherwise doctored.
I'll give him credit for seeming legit to a good number of people. He's getting bids that most Mantle scammers don't. So maybe it is "authentic" as he says, but there's somethin' he ain't telling ... and that somethin' is bad news for the winner.
"One of the problems with guys like you are you are so jealous because you don't have anything to sell that can compare to a 52 Mantle. I checked your auctions all little small sales dollar cards 10 dollar cards big deal you wish you could sell a Mantle. Why aren't all your cards graded hotshot? Just because you have nothing but cheap stuff and couldn't afford a card like a 52 Mantle doesn't give you the right to criticize someone who can. Mind your own business e bay has no rules stating that cards have to be graded to be sold on e bay. Why don't you put your money where your mouth is I will bet you $50,000.00 that this card is real it is not a reprint it is not a fake and it has not been trimmed. Put your money up or shut your mouth and mind your own business."
<< <i>It could be the san but it does look trimmed.. The border gets narrow upwards on the right hand side.. The left hand side border looks fine however. I don't understand why someone would trim it.
Man the Christmas colored large text is enough to give a guy a seizure. >>
There's another card or piece of paper under the Mantle and it sticks out on the right side. That may be what your seeing?
"There are two slight discolorations on the front of the card. My guess is it was done in the printing."
He's not guessing the card is authentic, he's 100% sure, offers a guaranty, and will bet $50k that his opinion is correct.
Instead, ask him for a guaranty on the only thing he is guessing about, those two slight discolorations.
Those two spots are the difference between tears of joy and tears of sadness for the hapless raw 52 Mantle eBay bargain hunters.
I also do not like the corners of the scans in the auction. The back corners appear much better than the front. It sure looks like scans of 2 different cards to me.
"Hey a**hole did you know Psa lost a $900,000.00 lawsuit recently for switching cards? Real Legengs sent them cards to have graded and Psa switched cards on them and gave them inferior cards in return. So your stupid question about investing $50 bucks is absurd. Dream about this card you will never have one. Just sell your dollar cards and don't worry about people who have money."
That guy seems a bit tightly wound for my taste! His "protests" and self-righteous indignation should be a red flag for anyone interested in this auction.
The guy has totally distorted the facts about the Legends incident. PSA did nothing wrong in this incident and in essence settled a law suit to keep the thing from going for forever. This was discussed in the whole wiwag thing a while back. To sum it up, wiwag fell and took the reputation of Legends with it and it appeared that PSA lead Legends to believe that wiwag was top flite - this is what I recollect.
your friend
mike
I just received another email from him that was so filled with profanity I won't even post a cleaned up version here.Avoid this guy like the plague.If anyone wants to read it drop me a pm.
Unless ... the scam is that the card is doctored but "authentic" by PSA's definition. Then the buyer has no leg to stand on, and the cost of a legal fight would be more than the loss anyway. If that's the scenario, the scammer has no need to hide. Just has to live with feedback that keeps getting worse. Maybe when it dips to 95% or so, he drops the ID and starts over.
But I don't think it's genuine, doctored or otherwise, based on the way he reacts to a very natural suspicion. Somebody like this just doesn't come by a real '52 Mantle. Not if there's a God in heaven.
I don't trust his relationship with seller dalebet either. That seller is a Pete Maravich specialist, is also from Ohio, and the 3 items parklanespirit recently won from dalebet are not the normal type of items parklanespirit bids on.
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
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As far as that card... the card that is pictured in the auction, or that any of you may have seen against the newspaper, it is completely legitimate. I highly doubt that it has been trimmed or altered either, there would be no point to altering or trimming that card by even the dumbest moron alive. I think the seller simply owns an authentic 1952 Mantle card and is using its likeness in his scam. The guy knows the card is legit, it has probably even been graded by PSA before, but he's showing it raw to conduct his scam, knowing that he can get it graded at any time.
Pure bait and switch, as the buyer will receive a fake card and then be accused of switching it themselves after they sign to accept the package, sworn at up and down by this jerk, the buyer will be screwed, and there won't even be a record of the sale ever occuring through eBay.
This guy needs a rope... so he can hang himself instead of having to spend the rest of his life as a rotten, pathetic petty thief.
Now all of a sudden he is going to pay out almost $4,000 for an ungraded Mantle rookie.
Give me a break!
So how about his guarantee that it's authentic? He'll eat the bad feedback and respond that the buyer must have switched it? That's a pretty bad thing to have in your feedback, an accusation of fraud on a $4,000 sale.
Maybe the whole idea is to make sure the winner is not a real person, and then offer it offline to one of the underbidders. Then the guarantee is even more worthless, and there's no recourse ... not even bad feedback.
Man I hope not
Need 1973 Baseball PSA 9's
jrdolan - this guy has zero intention of completing that transaction through eBay. There is very little chance that the auction will run to completion. I will be amazed if it does. So, he's not worried about seeing a negative feedback because the buyer won't be able to give him one. Several people have talked to him and he has stated to all of them that he is planning on selling the card off eBay. His guarantees are worthless, this guy clearly knows exactly what he's doing, and he is going to scam someone badly. As to showing the real card and then switching to a fake and conducting the transaction off eBay, it's the most well-contrived scam of any of the Mantle scams that have gone on lately from a scammers perspective. Big headache's coming up for some unsuspecting sucker.
But, then again, if the guy actually does deliver the card that he has pictured in the auction, and PSA grades it any number, then I'll eat my words. But, I'm pretty confident after seeing and hearing everything that has gone on thus far that it's not going to happen.
His auction is at $4250 with 3 1/2 hours left, I still say he pulls it before it closes on eBay.
Also, you can't end an auction with 12 hours left, so this one will complete. No real reason for it not to anyway. IF he's a scammer, what does he care about negative feedback or if ebay refunds the buyer's money? He'll be gone.
The winning bidder has bid on a few Mantle's over the last 30 days and all but one was not graded.Of course the most expensive one that has the biggest chance of being fake/tampered is the one that he buys ungraded.
It just has to be a fake bidder.
He has won a fair amount of auctions since February (and gotten feedback for a fair amount of them), including a :
1956 Topps Mantle AS PSA 8
1958 Topps Mantle AS PSA 7
1952 Bowman Mantle GAI 6
1961 Topps Mantle PSA 7
1961 Topps Mantle AS PSA 8
1956 Topps Mantle CSA(?) 9
1964 Topps Mantle PSA 7
1957 Topps Mantle PSA 6
1965 Topps Mantle PSA 7
Completed my Clemente Basic Registry (2007 - 2014)!
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<< <i>Doesn't look like a fake bidder to me. >>
And what do you notice about your list?? Every card there was graded.But the big daddy of all Mantle cards is bought raw??
Seems kind of strange to me.
He has also won :
1955 Bowman Mantle "guaranteed genuine"
1960 Topps Mantle "Pro"
1962 Topps Mantle (Raw - but seller with 100% rating with 2400+ feedback)
1946 Raw Cy Young autograph
I think he might be ignorant so i went ahead and sent him e-mail...
Completed my Clemente Basic Registry (2007 - 2014)!
Positive transactions with oakesy25,jasoneggert,swartz1,MBMiller25,gregm13,kid4hof03,HoopGuru33,Reese3333,BPorter26,Davemri,CuseSteve