thaler attribution help needed! -- Did NGC get this one wrong?

DennisH

Hello all and thanks in advance for any help and assistance.

Morgan dollar collecting is my primary affliction, but I've also been fooling around with thalers from the 1600s for several years. Haven't learned a lot about them, however, which is why I'm posting now.

The coin below is identified on its NGC holder (MS63!) as "1658 Austria taler Hall". But I can't find the silly thing anywhere in the 1996 Krause "World Crowns & Talers, 1600-date" book I have... at least not in the Austria section.

Now that I'm trying to sell it on eBay I've been told by one eBay'er that it's not a Hall mint coin but a Kremnitz mint coin (initials K and B on the reverse next to each eagle's talon holding the swords).

But I DO find a picture of it in the Hungary section (Dav. #3197) that says it is WAY more rare than I thought!

Could NGC really have messed up this badly and called this an Austria Hall thaler when it is actually a Hungary Kremnitz thaler?

Can anyone help me figure out what this coin really is?

-- Dennis

1jester

It does appear to be a Krzemnitz Thaler, with the Hungarian coat of arms on the reverse as well as on the obverse. Nice condition too!!



PS: I'm no expert on these at all, however.

DennisH

So, it appears that NGC did get this attribution wrong... which leads me to two other questions:

1. Will NGC fix this?
2. Is there any other professional source for an accurate attribution on world coins? (I already tried PCGS, but they said the coin was too big to fit into the holder and didn't even start to grade it.)

-- Dennis

traderdave

May I say that just because people revere one TPG or another doesn't make them infallible, and most of the mistakes are made on grade. Because people have placed their trust in these companies that makes them necessary, though. It's just a case of keep paying and hope you don't get shorted too bad, it seems to me. Since NGC and PCGS have positioned themselves at the top, that's what we're stuck with, in my humble opinion. There are a couple more good companies, of course, but this one is definitely NGC's baby. They'll have to fix that, and they should cover shipping, too, to be fair!

DennisH

Dave:

I sent an e-mail to NGC explaining the situation (gave them the serial number too) and asked how I go about getting this fixed. Should be interesting to see how they respond.