Before & After

stev32k

Here is a 1921-S Morgan that was in a PCGS MS62 holder. I thought it looked kinda poor at first then I decided it might clean fairly well. So I cracked it out and gave it a little conservation treatment. The before and after are pretty amazing. I'm guessing it will do better than MS62 this time around.

Here's before:



Here's after:

K6AZ

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you the one who makes criticisms about minor photo flaws?

stev32k

Ok, what's wrong - don't like the different backgrounds?

RayJay

Looked better before you cleaned

K6AZ

<< <i>Ok, what's wrong - don't like the different backgrounds? >>



Nothing really wrong, I just find it odd that you have nitpicked minor flaws in some of my images recently and you post images like this. Just strikes me as being a little odd.

CarlWohlforth

The After image shows the existing scratches to the cheek more. PCGS should grade toned coins higher so folks don't screw around with them IMO. In this case I like the before coin better. Too bad I can't make an offer on the coin ...

hamiltonjh

i dont know about giving a toned coin a higher grade just because it's toned. Perhaps a seperate "Tone Grade"?

Myqqy

It looks to me that the after photos show the scuff marks on the cheek area- I would be surprised if it makes anything higher than a 63....

stev32k

<<Nothing really wrong, I just find it odd that you have nitpicked minor flaws in some of my images recently and you post images like this. Just strikes me as being a little odd. >>

I apologize if I nitpicked your photos. I certainly did not intend to offend you, and it won't happen again. Now, what is it you don't like about the images.

The coin was not toned. It had PVC, cigarette smoke haze, or something similar. Soaking in acetone will not remove true toning. Acetone will only remove soluble organics and some loose surface dirt. True toning is an inorganic metal complex and is not affected by organic solvents.

K6AZ

Steve, the images are too small and the contrast is way off.

stev32k

I made the images small to cut down on uploading time. But I think they serve the purpose of illustrating the before and after differences in the coin. The contrast and brightness were set using a three point (black, white, & 18% gray) curve in photoshop, and it looks pretty accurate to me. Here's the shot right out of the camera with only re-sizing. The white chip in the lower right hand is the white reference point. The gray chip in the upper right hand corner is 18% gray. The background is the black reference. Using these three points I can get a pretty accurate depiction of the true colors and contrast in the shot. There are also differences in monitors. Mine is calibrated to the sRGB color standard and may show the colors, and contrast differently than yours.

ChuckC

hey, I like the after result more than the before coin!

Shamika

I'm not sure that you'll get an upgrade, but the coin does look nice.

The "before" image is very difficult to look at, but the "after" image is pretty nice.

Coinhusker1

Based on the images you have, the coin looks better, but no better than a 63. Probably not worth submitting unless you think it has a shot at 64. Might be able to better tell with larger images and (per K6) less contrast.

VicPortland

I think the coin looks better after. Having said that, I have mixed feelings about 'conserving' or 'dipping' coins. I am not a purist who says every toned coin is better off than a dipped coin (I think some toned coins are really ugly), but overdipped coins are too 'clean'. If you only used acetone, then I would agree that you really didn't clean it so much as remove organic residues.

stev32k

To me dipping means using an acidic solution to remove part of the surface material. This normally leaves a bright, polished, and un-natural looking surface that destroys mint luster. Soaking in acetone does not remove any of the coin surface. It only removes organic residue clinging to the surface. It will also remove some loose surface dirt, but it will not remove any metal. Since natural or real toning involves actual changes in the metal chemistry it is not affected by organic solvents.

Cigarette smoke, cooking vapors, car fumes, and even naturally occurring hydrocarbons can cause deposition on coins, cars, and people. To me those things make ugly looking coin surfaces. I thought the 1921-S Morgan was a terrible looking coin before soaking. I expected it to clean up some with acetone treatment, but was surprised by how much it's appearance was improved (at least by my standards). I guess that means there was a lot of "stuff" on the surface that should not have been there. There is even a die crack on the reverse that was not visible before. I suppose some people find a hazed over, or mottled & spotted brown looking surface to be attractive, but I'm not one of them.