Where in the world does Krause come up with coin values

MSD61

Where does Krause get its coin values? I am bidding on a proof set that Krause lists with a market value of $40 and I know that $40 is way, way to low for this set. Just wondering

JamminJ

The get the prices from specialists in each country. However, they are often unwilling to make dramatic changes from one year to the next, preferring to move slowly to the final target.

The guy who does the Netherlands is a dealer local to me. He's been working for years to bring those prices down so as to more accurately reflect reality.

-JamminJ

spinaker2000

I think they sometimes lose sight of supply and demand, esp. in high grade.

newsman

I would have guessed that they put possible values on a big dartboard and throw darts at them to decide which ones to use.

SYRACUSIAN

Newsman's explanation sounds more possible to me.

The guy who does the Netherlands is a dealer local to me. He's been working for years to bring those prices down so as to more accurately reflect reality



Or to be able to buy the coins at low prices? I know that some "specialists" from some countries do it. <----( insert whistling indifferently emoticon here )

JamminJ

<< <i>Or to be able to buy the coins at low prices? I know that some "specialists" from some countries do it. <----( insert whistling indifferently emoticon here ) >>



This particular guy is pretty honest in that respect.

On each one of his holders he jots down the Krause values in two or three appropriate grades along with his price. First time through his inventory I came across all these Dutch coins, thinking "wow, Krause is $30 in UNC but this coin is a gem and only $15! - BUY!!!!"

Fast forward a month or two after the coins had been appropriately blessed by NGC as gems. I sell them and they all bring about $18-$20 in the slab. Next visit to the dealer I comment on how much the Dutch coins stunk sale wise. He replies:
"Oh you can't go by the catalog values on those - they're way off - that's why I sell them so cheaply. I should know, I'm the guy who supplies Krause with pricing for the Netherlands. They were even higher when I started doing them, but they won't come down to reality too quickly as that would imply they made a mistake"

True story.

-JamminJ

MSD61

I was just wondering. For example, the Irish republic 10 shilling double coin proof set is listed in Krause with a $40 market value. There is no way you can touch one of these sets for $40 bucks. There were only 1,000 of these sets made and it's rare to see one. You can see all the single proofs you want but the double set is something you don't see often. I've only seen one up close and personal and that was my uncle's the last time I visited him in Ireland. I was just shocked to see Krause value these at $40.

cladking

Much of the world coin market is extremely thin. There are some areas that are widely
collected both in this country and their country of origin but many series simply have a
very low supply and demand and trade only infrequently. The huge increase in the size
of the universe caused by new coin issues in recent years has made the job even more
difficult. Specialists will naturally buy the specific catalog for the coins they study but the
general public and beginners are far more likely to pick up the 20th century edition which
will cause "unnaturally" higher demand for the later issues. And these issues can be even
more difficult to price since supply varies more widely than with the older coins.

The net has defined the values of some of the more actively traded issues but Krause has
always been a little reluctant to change pricing. They've been making an attempt to price
rarities more accurately but "common" coins like recent proof and mint sets have changed
little since the first issue in '75(?).

I personally find the underpricing or overpricing of entire countries to be more disconcerting.
While they've been moving in the right direction for the main part, there is still a huge amount
of work to do to make pricing reflective of the actual market. Since many world coins are ac-
tually priced according to Krause it does mean that some are dramatically underpriced and
some are out of reach because they aren't often seen a a fair price.

Blackhawk

Is the cart leading the horse? In this country, at least, listed value drives the market for the coin. In the case of the aforementioned coins from the Netherland, what if they were suddenly listed at three times what they are now, would there be a greater or lesser demand for them? If collectors perceived them as being desireable because of the listed price, eventually they will be hard to find because everyone will want one in their collection. You can spot this easily in US collecting...how about the 1909-S VDB cent? Plenty of them out there but still worth a fortune.

ajaan

Tell Krause if their catalogue value is way off the real retail value. They probably will change it in the next edition. I have done this in the past. There are so many coins listed Krause can't possible keep up with all the values without help.

Askari

The folks at Krause have told me in the past that they don't go by any one dealer's information but have a "formula" for adjusting prices that weights recent prices the heaviest. I suspect that it wasn't universally used and probably is even less used in recent years. Krause seriously thinned out its staff about the time it started changing the picture database, which is part of the reason there were so many problems. It seems they fix/update a little here one year and a little there the next year. It's a huge job -- which is why there are no individually managed coin websites duplicating Krause's efforts.

MacCrimmon

My all-time favorite Krause price was for a 1911 1 franc Swiss Specimen striking. They had it at $900. I found a stunner and paid about $400 or so raw, had NGC slab it for $20 and then sold it for a tad under $500. No, I'm not stupid, I just prefer to sleep at night. Why bury someone in a "Krause" price when you know they'll never see the light of day on the piece. Of course, they are often "way low" on gem Swiss pieces which are unc

......plus, they don't factor in Forex into the equation which is making huge problems, dollar-wise, for not only British bits and bobs, but my upcoming buying frenzy for smoe moe Swissie babettes!!

ccrdragon

SWAG

midwestcoin13

They have a trained monkey who throws darts at a board.

midwestcoin13

oops didhnt read entire post newsman beat me to the dart thing.

dorancoins

<< <i>Where does Krause get its coin values? I am bidding on a proof set that Krause lists with a market value of $40 and I know that $40 is way, way to low for this set. Just wondering >>



Good question! I have found that though Krause has general information on world coins (and currency), the coin and currency books from other countries (Charlton - Canada, McDonald - Australia, Coincraft - UK) have way more info than Krause. Bear in mind that they're more expensive, too!

wybrit

I think ajaan hit it on the nose. The task to accurately price all of the coins in Krause is nearly impossible. There is probably way too little data on most coins outside the US and Canada. How many people would have to be on staff monitoring ebay auctions, floor auctions and dealers to do it well? Way more than the they could ever afford to pay and still be profitable. I think pricing GB coins is tough enough, let alone the rest of the world.

PuddlePirate

Like most "catalog compilers" they probably use a few established dealers and go with the "average" price from there. While the Bay of E, and Yippee Yahoo are having an effect on the "availability" of coins for the collector do you really think they "set" any type of price guideline that is realistic? My observation of Bayeee tells me that "most people" want a deal and do not want to truely "pay" even wholesale prices for anything if they can help it. Have ANY of the common auction sites ever set a new price ceiling on a coin or medal that you know of?

How many of you that sell on any auction site ever truely are surprised by an "overmarket price" sale on a constant basis, be it Krause or Spinks or whomever you base your prices on?

If you look to the Ancient Coin Prices just how realistic are those after everything is said and done? There are literally tons of Ancient Coins that haven't been dug up yet, and tons that have but haven't been sorted or cleaned. One could argue that they aren't being made anymore but that argument is circular and makes as much sense as buying wheat pennies by the pound because they aren't made anymore.

The catalogs like Krause give me a "guideline" to work with, and a picture representation in most cases. As a "World Coin" collector I'm a newbie for the most part, and learn something everyday (especially in grading) but I am learning. Without a Krause guideline I would be hopelessly lost. I guess what I am trying to say is that I think they are doing a decent enough job that no one else seems to be competing with them on a consistent basis.