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Why the run of 1961 PSA 8 on eBay?

As I usually do once a week, I search the 1960-1965 PSA Graded category on eBay for cards for my sets. As of a few minutes ago, here were the quantities for the years/grades I searched for:

1963 PSA 7 - 71
1963 PSA 7 - 84
1963 PSA 8 - 90
1964 PSA 7 - 95
1965 PSA 8 - 149
1964 PSA 8 - 168
1961 PSA 7 - 191

1961 PSA 8 - 418 !!!

I understand it's a matter of timing of catching those selling off sets but man, isn't this like market dumping or something? Is the demand keeping up with such supplies?

Comments

  • qualitycardsqualitycards Posts: 2,811 ✭✭✭
    STEVE - With so many to choose from, that could mean good prices for you!..jay
  • BuccaneerBuccaneer Posts: 1,794 ✭✭
    Yeah, I know. It looks like the commons PSA 8 are going off for about $14 and the PSA 7 can't sell for more than $7.

    However, I am seriously thinking about quiting this set - except that I will complete and keep the registered All-Stars set. Even with 23% complete and 2/3 of them in NM raw, it's a tough set to fully complete with so many stars and high# cards. But it looks like I'll wait until later to sell, if I do.
  • stevekstevek Posts: 27,582 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There has always been a lot of high grade raw out there of this set. My theory is that with the interest in the Maris - Mantle home run race of that year, a lot more cards were sold than usual but with some dealers probably overstocking and having to keep the inventory, eventually selling it off in later years. Being overstocked, they probably didn't order much of the final series which makes those high numbers scarce.
  • jayhawkejayhawke Posts: 1,287 ✭✭✭
    I agree with stevek, I recall always seeing a lot of '61 raw cards in nm condition. I haven't checked the pop report in a while, but I bet it has to be one of the highest graded sets in the '60's.
  • Maybe there is a lot more card restoration going on than anyone wants to admit or believe? Not on the PSA 8s, but on the PSA 9s that are available which make the 8s plentiful on EBAY. I just sold a bunch of PSA 8s to Dave Kjeer at Ft Washington that I replaced with 9s.
  • Just some thoughts about the set and the recent increase in psa 8's .......

    I don't believe the large quantity of 1961 Topps 8's is due to people selling off their sets, but rather to an increase in the number graded. These cards are seemingly "coming out of the woodwork"!!!! I don't track the population numbers too closely but for some cards I have seen the number of 8's double over the past year and the number of 9's double, triple or increase by even more!!! Cards that were thought to be one-of-a-kind are turning out to be several-of-a-kind. (But such is the blessing, or curse, of ebay!)

    Several ebay sellers (highgradecards10, cardmrchnt6ta4, dslsports, etc.) have been listing plenty of extremely nice 8's and 9's lately.

    Where will it all end? A few PSA 8's of one of the toughest cards in the set, the World Series Game 5 card, turned up on ebay in March and they each sold for right around $500. Just a week or so after that a 9 appeared and went for $464... less than either of the 8's!!! As I write this ANOTHER 9 is up for bid and just closed at $456 and was won by the winner of one of the 8's from a few weeks ago! [Right now the pop on this card shows 19 8's and 8 9's .... if the trend continues soon there may be more 9's than 8's!!!]

    I guess what I'm struggling with is the meaning of "Low Pop" and also just how many of these cards are out there yet to be graded? There might be hundreds of collectors who love this set, or there might even be thousands! If the number of graded set collectors grew to 500 or so for this set then a psa 8 common with a pop of 85 would be considered low! Will we ever see that day?

    Someone earlier in the thread pointed out that 1961 generated alot of interest because of the home run record, which is true, but I also believe that the 61 set is probably one of the most popular because of the clean and classic design of the cards. The style is truely timeless and is unlike other cards of that era in that the cards aren't overly colored with the pink's, fuschia's and lime green's as in 59 or 60 for example.

    As Jay pointed out, now is a good time to be buying rather than selling! With so many quality cards out there a set can be put together at a fraction of what it cost just a few years ago! What is axiom for stocks? "Buy when others are selling and sell when others are buying".... something like that! At any rate, its probably a good time for collectors but not necessarily so good for investors.

    Some time ago, Rob McBride had a post here that showed the number and percentage increase of the various grades in this set from year to year. I think plenty of folks would be interested in seeing data like that again.... Rob...Is it available?

    Happy Collecting!
    Tom

  • Mac53Mac53 Posts: 805
    LateBloomer:
    I found your post very interesting. I'm getting back into this after a 40+ year break. I had mainly 1962 Topps as a kid (you know, my mom threw 'em out when I went to college, yada, yada, yada), but now I like both '61 and '63 both better than '62. Be that as it may, I read a lot about "investment" versus "collecting," on this forum, but I don't think those two ideas are as distinct as some would believe. So much of collecting is owning an item that has monetary worth. If it has emotional benefit above that, so much the better, but putting a monetary value on it enhances that emotional benefit. IMO. What makes a high grade so desirable is that there are less of them. I look on both my '61 and '63 sets as items that will not devalue, since they came before the (let's say) inexhaustable printing of cards which came later, after 1969 or after (let's say) 1988. So, there are a limited number of '61s, what is the explanation for so many coming on the market at this time? I have thought that the days of suddenly finding a cache of old baseball cards has ended. Are you saying that the ebay phenomena is pulling even more out of "the woodwork?" I think that the ebay phenomena is also creating a whole new bunch of collectors who don't have the knowledge or time that they would have had without the Internet. I guess, my question would be: "Do you see the prices of '61s staying the same, increasing or decreasing?
    "Charlie, here comes the deuce. And when you speak of me, speak well."image
  • BuccaneerBuccaneer Posts: 1,794 ✭✭
    This is funny for this week, I have started selling off my partial 1961 set, including several PSA 8 stars and commons lots. If you can't beat 'em, might as well join them.

    LateBloomer/Mac: Nice posts.
  • what about the Rizzuto and Berra MVP cards? Are those still as tough as they used to be?
  • Mac53 - Thanks for your thoughts and your question.



    << <i>Do you see the prices of '61s staying the same, increasing or decreasing? >>



    Gosh, if I only knew the answer to that!!! But honestly I don't think anyone really knows about prices regardless of what type of commodity we're talking about. There are so many factors including not only supply and demand for the cards themselves but factors totally unrelated to collecting. In general over the short term I have a 'gut feeling' that prices will continue to drift lower and stabilize at some point. Over the long term I suppose it really depends on how many mint cards are still out there waiting to be graded.

    In the meantime, however, I'm going to continue my collection and continue enjoying it because as you pointed out the cards have sentimental worth that isn't easily quantified.

    Kennylow - The Berra MVP card is a short print card and the current pop shows 72 8's and 11 Higher
    The Rizzuto MVP cards pop shows 48 8's and 4 Higher

    Here's how they currently stack up vs. the other MVP cards in the set:

    479 JIM KONSTANTY 43 8 2 Higher
    471 PHIL RIZZUTO 48 8 4 Higher
    485 ERNIE BANKS 56 8 4 Higher
    486 DICK GROAT 56 8 4 Higher
    473 BOBBY SHANTZ 64 8 2 Higher
    472 YOGI BERRA 75 8 11 Higher
    480 ROY CAMPANELLA 75 8 7 Higher
    481 HANK SAUER 80 8 5 Higher
    476 JACKIE JENSEN 81 8 7 Higher
    474 AL ROSEN 83 8 9 Higher
    477 NELLIE FOX 91 8 14 Higher
    483 DON NEWCOMBE 93 8 11 Higher
    482 WILLIE MAYS 124 8 19 Higher
    478 ROGER MARIS 148 8 13 Higher
    484 HANK AARON 190 8 28 Higher
    475 MICKEY MANTLE 209 8 25 Higher

    So yes, they are a couple of the tougher MVP cards to obtain in high grade. 8's for either have been selling on ebay in the $100-$160 range depending on centering and background quality. Personally I believe the Berra card is in higher demand and its more difficult to obtain a well-centered example.


    Buccaneer - Good luck with your ebay sales!
  • Mac53Mac53 Posts: 805


    << <i>I don't think anyone really knows about prices regardless of what type of commodity we're talking about. >>



    Maybe we should figure out a way to sell puts and calls on baseball cards. image Thanks for your comments. The subject's very interesting.
    "Charlie, here comes the deuce. And when you speak of me, speak well."image
  • Tom- I do have that data, but haven't tabulated it yet. My plan is to tabulate it when the total of graded cards is 100,000 for the 61 set. Now, it is about 96K.

    The percent of 9's and 10's has gone up significantly in the past 9 months. Plus the 8's kep coming. Demand has not kept up with supply, and prices have been dropping. as others have noted. My personal opinion is that the prices have reached a point where they won't drop much more, because it is not profitable to submit 8's to sell, except the tough ones, of which there are fewer and fewer.

    The recent number of cards you saw on Ebay was a result of Steve Hart with bbcard exchange evidently grading a complete set of very nice raw cards. Hw received quite a few 9's, and most of the rest 8's, with a scattering of 7's.

    Mastro has a complete set with 242 PSA 9's up thsi week, and 707 is selling Garte's set on Ebay closing Saturday, I believe. No one has bid with the opening price just over $18,000. It is mostly a PSA 8 set, but most of the high demand low pop 8's are qualified, or in PSA 7.

    It seems to me like a good time to be collecting the set in PSA 7 or 8.
    Ole Doctor Buck of the Popes of Hell

  • BuccaneerBuccaneer Posts: 1,794 ✭✭
    Thanks, Rob. I feel like a panic seller while the market is crashing but it looks like I'll do ok. I've got my eye on a real special card and selling the 1961s, even at a loss, will be worth it.

    By the way, does your assessment includes the All-Star cards as well?
  • StingrayStingray Posts: 8,843 ✭✭✭
    Latebloomer I agree with you comments, I was thinking the same thing. There are a lot of sellers using the term "low population" on Ebay. If there are 300 people collecting one paticular year and there are 30 psa 9s is that considered low?

    Stingray
  • MorrellManMorrellMan Posts: 3,238 ✭✭✭
    It's an eBay truth that good selling items tend to bring out more of the same; it's a cyclical thing: demand attracts supply until supply exceeds the demand.
    Mark (amerbbcards)


    "All evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
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