Wisconsin Quarter prices firming up?

Versailles

It appears that the prices for the Wisconsin Quarters Hi/Lo Leafs may be firming up. It also appears that the number of bids are on the increase for NGC/PCGS graded quarters. That implies interest is becoming broader based and the market more liquid. This is highly positive since we are still very early on in this discovery. Those with vision can extrapolate what 10, 20, or 50 years might look like once the storm of current events subside.

I personally find the error very interesting from not just its unusual placement but the fact that there are 2 leafs coming off the husk. Its almost as if the author is saying to his audience: "Look, this is not an accident. I placed two unique leafs here to prove it was deliberate".

Ask this question: What are the chances that a gouge would create 2 leafs "somewhat artistically" emanating from a husk? Why isn't the second gouge coming out of the cow's head? I'd say the odds of 2 unique husk gouges are greater than the odds in the Powerball lottery.

Nonetheless, have you noticed the number of threads devoted to this topic? At the very least it is invoking a great debate that will probably be around for years to come.


http://search.ebay.com/wisconsin-quarter_Coins_W0QQsofocusZbsQQsbrftogZ1QQfromZR10QQfnuZ1QQsacatZ11116QQftrtZ1QQftrvZ1QQfsopZ3QQfsooZ2QQcoactionZcompareQQcopagenumZ1QQcoentrypageZsearch

TheRaven

At the prices the coins are drawings I have little interest in aquiring one. If the prices where more reasonable I might go after one.

The prices are going to stay quite high is my guess and alot of solely quarter collectors will want one.

pharmer

and your comments are appreciated and well thought out. I am in an email debate with a recognized authority on varieties and errors who has said he takes the word of two others, both of whom have opined in the forum that they are die gouges, although he has not seen them in person, and who has declined my offer to send my raw examples for his examination. Your point about the locations and appearance and that there are two is a point I have made to him and which he has yet to address. I have decided to send them anyway as I have a submission of other coins going in to him. We will see.

Lakesammman

Will be interesting to see how the pops evolve. Looks like the low leaf is the tougher in high grade, so far.

Weiss

Pharmer, I remember you mentioned that email before. It sure seems like numisnobbery to discount these because they're "die gouges". The 3-legged buff is die polish, isn't it? Isn't that what caused the 1922-p, too? Neither of those famous errors were the result of "legitimate" design issues on the die. If the die polish on the Buff had been anywhere else on the coin, it wouldn't even have been noticed. It was serendipity that took out a the easily recognizeable leg on a big, hulking buffalo. That made it funny and interesting. It had nothing to do with the die or the design, but the resulting error was impressive anyway.

Despite the value, I'm not a fan of the 1922. I suspect because the polish didn't do anything except omit the mintmark. That just illustrates how important placement of the error is.


So what if these are gouges. They're very specific, perfectly placed so as to alter the intentional design, done at the mint, by the mint on a circulating issue, and they're apparently rare. That should at least make them as interesting as the 1937 buffalo.

pharmer

Weiss, that's how I took it also, and the dismissive attitude taken by an "error expert" in response to Rick Snow's posts about these struck a nerve with me. These experts have a stranglehold on this segment of the hobby, and actually believe they have the power to make or break something new in terms of acceptability and their opinon of value.

cladking

There are still a lot of WI "D" quarters in the fed pipeline. Any consideration to
future value should contain the possibility that many more might be found. Today's
buyers don't want to risk much higher prices in the event that no more are found.



<< <i>Ask this question: What are the chances that a gouge would create 2 leafs "somewhat artistically" emanating from a husk? Why isn't the second gouge coming out of the cow's head? I'd say the odds of 2 unique husk gouges are greater than the odds in the Powerball lottery. >>



Welcome aboard Versailles.

When one considers that these have also only been found together it makes it a
virtual certainty that the "extra leaves" are fully intentional.

mrdq

I'll wait 10 years then pick them up for $10 slabbed by PCGS. mark my words and save this thread

If i'm wrong i'll buy one off EBAY at 2015 prices and hold a give away.

Versailles

You didn't specify a grade for the 2015 eBay auction purchase. I'd prefer you give away the MS66+.

Probably should budget at least $10/month starting today!

TWQG

Welcome to the forum Versailles. Do you collect statehood quarters?

Versailles

Thank you Sean.

I've been collecting since I was about 9 years old. I don't necessarily focus on quarters, just what I find attractive/compelling. The WI Hi/Lo's are in the compelling category and I believe will have long-term interest and value. Plus, they're relatively inexpensive considering their (projected) scarcity.

Coin Finder

OK I think a Mint employee picked up an old die and goudged these leafs into the die to make low leaf. The high leaf was a first attempt. This should satisfy everyone!

Tbig

beartracks42

I watched two auctions for the threesome top $250 this evening and they were raw. that convinced me that I will not own any at the present time.

lawman8735

I am in agreement with you, I really could not comment on the varieties until I bought a low and a high leaf at ms65. imho they are awsome! Photos on the net serve no justice until you actually hold one. If intentional or accidental I really dont care, I very happy with my set.

Versailles

Yes, lawman. Having 1 in your hand and seeing the unique features is truly exciting. And, after seeing the error with my own I eyes I was intrigued - and convinced of their long-term collectibility (regardless of what the "experts" say).

This is just a guess, but assuming fewer than 10,000 are found, I believe MS66s will be going for $2000+ in five years. At the very least, they will only ascend in value.

V.

lawman8735

Hi V
That would be nice, at this point i'll just tuck them away in my safe and awe at them from time to time. As far as prices go in five years would that be for both high and low versions?

mrdq

<< <i>Yes, lawman. Having 1 in your hand and seeing the unique features is truly exciting. And, after seeing the error with my own I eyes I was intrigued - and convinced of their long-term collectibility (regardless of what the "experts" say).

This is just a guess, but assuming fewer than 10,000 are found, I believe MS66s will be going for $2000+ in five years. At the very least, they will only ascend in value.

V. >>




If 9,999 are found you think these'll be selling for 2000+ ??? how many collectors do you think are out there that want one?

How many coins minted in the 1900's have a current pop less than that and can be bought for 2,000 or less?

Many


I'm not a modern basher but this seems pretty "la-la" landish to me.

good luck to you, remember they ridiculed Columbus when he set sail and discovered a new land.


on the other hand... there were already people here so did he really discover it?... oh nevermind

Versailles

Assuming the current scarcity of the hi vs. lo remains intact the hi would reach $2000 first. But personally, I think the lo is more attractive aesthetically. I have a couple sets of both.

lawman8735

Hi Tom
I like having them for pure collection, Im not hoping for a profit.
btw -- C.C.'s discovery wasnt really his, and imho, history that they teach is wrong. they discovered greed.
LM

Versailles

WI Hi/Lo prices continue to gradually rise.

eBay WI Hi/Lo

Versailles

Below are some interesting articles on the Hi/Lo Leafs from the latest issue of Coin World:

There appears to be a desire by some individuals to talk down this discovery. At the same time it appears interest in the coin continues to grow as reflected in the growing debate and analysis. (See the amount of space devoted to it by CoinWorld on a weekly basis) This debate/interest grows even AFTER the national media has long since moved on.

I did some follow-up research on a claim made by a certain dealer regarding a discovery of 2000 WI Hi/Lo quarters. The dealer stated that the individual who made the find wishes to remain anonymous. Any inquiries about the find were met with vague, elusive, and ambiguous answers. At the same time, the dealer's tone perked up considerably when I said I had the coin and was inquisitive about its appearance (they never saw one). I was offered about $350 less than what they sell for on eBay. Interesting.

I tend to share David Bowers view. This is an interesting coin, very collectible, and may have significant value in the long run. The "sour grapes" phenomenon may indeed be at work here because because "the professionals" were not a key part of this discovery and appear out of touch.

pf70collector

I have a complete set of PCGS MS Quarters mostly in 67 and 68's. I will wait a few years to see what happens with these hi/lo leafs. I know I will need to add them if I want a completed MS set but the prices are prohibitive for me at this stage. May have a chance in 2 sets of unopened rolls of U.S Mint Wisconsin Quarters I own but not betting on it. I am in no rush.

cladking

<< <i>

I tend to share David Bowers view. This is an interesting coin, very collectible, and may have significant value in the long run. The "sour grapes" phenomenon may indeed be at work here because because "the professionals" were not a key part of this discovery and appear out of touch. >>



Many if not most of "The Professionals" still make light of any coin minted after 1964.
Indeed those who believe no good coins were minted after the Civil War are none too
difficult to find.

As this part of the market grows they are likely to get increasingly out of touch.

Versailles

If you do not want to pay the current price you may want to buy a lower grade from eBay or a dealer just so you can add them to your collection, albeit at a lower grade.

Looking at all the facts, arguments, and opinions, etc my intuition tells me the prices will not be coming down. I have the MS64-66s but they are not for sale.

dbldie55

Remember those $150+ 1995 DDO Lincolns in 1995. I just picked one up a few weeks ago. I must have stolen it.

BAJJERFAN

If you consider the circumstances under which they have been found so far [2 locations, NO FULL ROLLS] and the number of people looking and all the mint bags and bank rolls that have been searched it seems to me thats its a very good possibility that only a very few will be found.

lawman8735

From reading this thread, I have to agree with the majority here. I think this variety if intentional or accidental is very exciting. I was fortunate enough to obtain a set at ms65 and one raw which I think should grade pretty much close to my set. Im not expecting to see any type of profit. I collect what appeals to me and this quarter did. I do not agree with an individual who is determine to "downplay" this discovery who has an article in coinworld. I believe we all know who this individual is. It will be interesting to see the actual pop report.
LM

Neptune

dismissive attitude taken by an "error expert" in response to Rick Snow's posts about these struck a nerve with me. These experts have a stranglehold on this segment of the hobby, and actually believe they have the power to make or break something new in terms of acceptability and their opinon of value.

The "sour grapes" phenomenon may indeed be at work here because because "the professionals" were not a key part of this discovery and appear out of touch.

Both very well stated and I tend to agree.

The sad part is that they, in their negativity, are discouraging new collectors by discounting new and exciting finds. Albeit, some may not be as exciting as others, and there are some scammers out there - but for an obvious and unique item - I can only feel that certain negativity by some people is a result of - what? Bad mood? or like you say not being a 'part of' the discovery. I don't think that anyone should discount what another collector finds interesting and wants to collect - or what they should/should not pay for certain items. Of course there is usually a sour grape in every batch. And I guess if everyone agreed, then that would make life dull.

19Lyds

<< <i>Remember those $150+ 1995 DDO Lincolns in 1995. I just picked one up a few weeks ago. I must have stolen it. >>



Don't leave us in the Lurch! How much did you steal it for??

Bochiman

Neptune,

You are right...they are scaring away people....and, it is most likely because "THEY" did not have the finds.
I have no problems with people's opinions, nor with it being accidental or intentional (and, I own 1 set that is raw).

I do have a problem when the "experts" think they are right no matter what. A true "expert" will use their experience and judgment and also be willing to admit when they are/may be wrong.

blastpak

I have two raw sets that I don't intend to have graded. Cost too damn much and don't need em graded unless I plan on selling them. I'll hold onto mine for another 32 years just like the rest of my coins. I will retire in 32 years unless I hit the lottery. Anyways I like the coins regardless of what anyone says and thats all that matters.

dpoole

No, no, Blastpak. You're not SUPPOSED to like them, you see. Die gouges are extremely common, which means that you and all the other people who like them are uninformed and not savvy numismatrist types.

And besides. Some people here just know for a fact that they'll be like the 1995 DDO, and we'll have these things running out of our ears in a couple of years.

That's another problem with you. You just can't foretell the future like some of us can.

Artist

Interesting thread -

I think the closest historical analogy we can make to the WI Hi/Lo varieties is the venerable 1937-D 3 LEG nickel. I say this for a three main reasons:

1 - Each variety was made (presumably) from a single pair of dies.

2 - The alterations in each instance adds some alegorical value to the coin.

3 - Both Buffalo nickels and State Quarters are very popular with collectors, especially new collectors.

We all know that as adults, many collectors harbor special affections for the series that first attracted them to the hobby - why else would an F-12 example of a coin fetch aproxiamtely $1K when according to pop reports at least 7,000 exist in all grades? By comparison, the quarter varieties seem like a bargain - especially when you figure in all the kids who want a set today, but won't be able to afford one for fifteen - twenty years.

Neptune

TTT



Pharmer, I remember you mentioned that email before. It sure seems like numisnobbery to discount these because they're "die gouges".

==================

Neptune,

You are right...they are scaring away people....and, it is most likely because "THEY" did not have the finds.
I have no problems with people's opinions, nor with it being accidental or intentional (and, I own 1 set that is raw).

I do have a problem when the "experts" think they are right no matter what. A true "expert" will use their experience and judgment and also be willing to admit when they are/may be wrong.

mrdq

8 years to go till i buy my coin off EBAY

cladking

<< <i>8 years to go till i buy my coin off EBAY >>




I always wanted to start a diary of forum threads. Perhaps I'll do it now. It should be a great giveaway.

As it turned out there were no others in the pipeline except those few
which turned up in Texas and some more in Arizona. There's no reason
to put off paying the price other than the possibility that prices can de-
cline and the existence of a few hoards.

It might be the breakup of hoards causing the current price weakness.

HIGHLOWLEAVES

Dear cladking,
I certainly respect your knowledge and insight regarding the modern US coinage which includes the Wisconsin Extra Leaf Quarters. That having been said, I attribute much of the recent price declines of this issue to include the fact that the WI Quarters are kind of old news after two plus years since they were minted and the likes of Arnie Margolis and Ken Potter have been so certain the the two varieties were a waste of collector's money !! Even some of the experts may change their theories and price perceptions once the Great Wisconsin Quarter Debate settles into a "basis of agreement" mode. Other reasons for the price decline are possible, of course.
I am in the area of Texas where the mother lode of WI Extra Leaf Quarters were distributed in Texas. I for one am still buying the ellusive Extra Leaf Quarters though small or large hoards in Texas do not seem to be offered. I don't think that many large hoards still in Texas. The greatest quantities may exist in Tucson but they are owned by dealers who hold the rare varieties in high regard !! IMHO. Most of the rare coins were sold to two major coin dealers in San Antonio. They were Lone Star Coins and Royalty Coins. I am not aware of any Austin, Tx coin dealers who actively bought the coins. A dealer in Kerrville, Tx had bought several coins/sets from the public but sold all their remaining stock to Lone Star back in 2005. There were really no long-term market makers here in Texas. Simply buy them as they entered the front door and sell them as quickly as you could through the back door. Since 2005, Lone Star Coins has changed ownership due to Rick's unfortunate death many months ago. Rick was an outstanding dealer !!
cladking, have a great day !! Mark.