Help!! I've got a BBed Morgan coming back. I need some opinions on these pictures.

VamCollector

Okay, I really need some opinions here. I'm hoping that I don't end up really taking a bath on this coin. I bought this 1878 8TF off of Ebay raw. The seller graded it as MS65 and I paid an MS65 price for it. It is an interesting Vam variety because it is a very late die state Vam-14.3 which is quite scarce. That is why I bid on it. I got the coin and actually it looks pretty much like the pics. Very clean as far as marks go and I figured that it would grade MS65. I sent the coin to NGC because I wanted the Vam # on the holder. I just found out that they BBed the coin for CLEANING!!! I don't see it and don't get it. There are no hairlines on the coin except for one very light possible hairline on the cheek which you have to look at the right angle to see. The fields are clean. Like 90% of all white morgan $s the coin may have been dipped but it is not overdipped and the luster is good. I have submitted several other rare Vams to NGC recently that were obviously cleaned (hairlines in the fields) but they still made it into a holder. I just don't see what the problem is with this coin and I've been doing dollars long enough to spot obvious problems. There is an area to the left of libertys nose that looks like a couple of streaks in the pictures. This appears to be carbon streaks and also appears to be in the planchet itself. Pretty much the coin looks like you see it. Am I missing something here????

Russ

Grading services make mistakes. I've had several coins bodybagged that graded the second time around.

Russ, NCNE

kieferscoins

<< <i>Like 90% of all white morgan $s the coin may have been dipped but it is not overdipped >>



It looks dipped to me and maybe too much so.

Can you take a pic showing the luster?

Cameron Kiefer

DNADave

Has it been "thumbed" on the cheek or in the field in front of the nose?

VamCollector

I haven't gotten the coin back yet from NGC so this is all I have for now. I know the washed out/overdipped look. This coin has average luster for a morgan and very typical luster for this particular variety. Most Vam 14.3s I have seen are not overly flashy in the luster dept and this is a very, very late die state for this obverse/reverse pair.

MAD4MORGANS

Hopefully it was a mistake on their part.

It kind of reminds me of College Algebra, they go zipping through it so fast you end up having to take it over...and the school makes more money. I'm not insinuating any grading services do this, I'm just letting you know that I suck at math!!

Whatever it ends up to be...you still have a NICE COIN!!

K6AZ

The coin appears to have been overdipped to me, to the point of stripping luster.

beartracks42

Vamcollector,

I do not know about the Vam numbers, but I have a 78 8TF that looks very much like yours. It has been bb'ed by PCGS, called cleaned by ANACS and is now in to NGC for grading. My wife paid 65 money for mine also. I can identify most cleaned Morgans, but this one has me stumped.

newport

I'm no expert, but it sure does look dipped to me...a very un-natural look.

VamCollector

These were the pictures taken by the seller. I shipped the coin off to NGC before taking any of my own. Again, the luster is not "booming" on this coin but for this particular variety it appears normal to me. Many of the 8TF varieties have their own "look" after you see enough of the same particular variety. I'm just stumped that they tighten up on something like this when they have slabbed several obviously cleaned coins in the past couple of months for me. These other coins received lower grades as I would have expected but they still slabbed. I just wish that NGC would provide more damn information on why they bagged it.

MAD4MORGANS

Is there anything that can be done that could bring back some of the original luster without damaging it? I thought I heard something about "facial oil" in a thread here somewhere in the past??

Russ

There is no way to determine the actual amount of luster from those images because of the angle at which they were shot.

Russ, NCNE

VamCollector

Very true. These are the sellers pics. The coin has what I would call "average" luster. Not booming but not washed out, either. I'll take better pics myself when I get the coin back.

coinvet

You know what they say about buying raw on ebay....and if the coin is not in a top2 holder there is a reason!

The coin looks dull and lifeless, overly dipped? Chalk it up to experience.

K6AZ

<< <i>There is no way to determine the actual amount of luster from those images because of the angle at which they were shot.

Russ, NCNE >>



Maybe not, but the stripped look comes through perfectly. The OP said there are no hairlines, so the only way a coin like this would bb would be for overdipping. Since it is at NGC, they will send it back as "improperly cleaned".

stev32k

That looks like a coin I would have paid MS65 money for. I agree with some of the others and think a second opinion is called for (ie send it in again).

VamCollector

Not meaning to argue this point but while up at the Long Beach coin show for example, I saw several PCGS/NGC slabbed morgans with very subdued/poor luster. I know the dead/washed out look gets a BB but if every morgan that was dipped was BBed a very large percentage would never make it into a slab (that currently do). I appreciate the comments, I really do, I'm just frustrated because I think NGC was wrong in this case base on coins they "have" been grading for me the past few months.

VamCollector

I'm going to re-submit it when I get it back. At this point another $30 won't matter much looking at how much I paid.....

K6AZ

Without a doubt, there are many stripped Morgans in NGC and PCGS holders. For 65 money, it's definitely worth a shot at PCGS. If they bag it too, I would send it to ANACS.

jmcu12

The surface looks flat to me, I agree, dipped. But good luck with it.

On another note, however, try ANACS first. I like the way they note the VAM on the slab, and you can save $$ avoid sending it to PCGS first....